Originally posted by @sonshipI agree. Three of the most intelligent and educated people I know are Christian. (Well, one of the three has elements of Hinduism thrown in).
He has some ground in [b]First Corinthains to say something like that.
But from my experience I don't think either side can boast that "All the educated and intelligent people are on our side" as much as it is tempting to assert that.
Besides "belief in God" to me is not the end all, but living in oneness with God is what is really impor ...[text shortened]... that sense God has restrained us and held us back. The story of Noah's flood demonstrates that.[/b]
For a theist to say the educated are less likely to be theists is akin to equating knowledge with disbelief of God, and that the more man learns the more he can see through the myth of the divine.
Originally posted by @sonshipSorry sonship but the Noah flood story is a terrible example to tender. Why you would do that is beyond me. (Unless we were discussing divine acts of genocide).
More to my interest is the asinine notion that "God has held us human species back." He's held us BACK from too quickly descending into total chaos. In that sense God has restrained us and held us back. The story of Noah's flood demonstrates that.[/b]
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeNot saying that at all.
I agree. Three of the most intelligent and educated people I know are Christian. (Well, one of the three has elements of Hinduism thrown in).
For a theist to say the educated are less likely to be theists is akin to equating knowledge with disbelief of God, and that the more man learns the more he can see through the myth of the divine.
My statement was based on surveys done in the United States, the specifics of which I honestly don’t remember.
But the more educated one is, the more affluent they *tend* to be as a general rule. Those who are living comfortable lives *tend* to develop pride in their security and self-sufficiency and don’t think they need God. This pushes God to the sidelines and eventually they come to the conclusion He doesn’t exist - if they believed in Him to begin with.
Those who are struggling in life or who have suffered a tremendous setback will often turn to God in earnest because they have nowhere else to go. Some will investigate the validity of God’s existence; others will accept He exists entirely on faith and right off the bat.
God exists in each circumstance, but only the ones who are struggling or who have suffered a tremendous setback or misfortune are apt to turn to Him.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeYou don’t know the state of the world at that time. God is on record as being willing to hold back calamity in order to spare a few righteous among many wicked.
Sorry sonship but the Noah flood story is a terrible example to tender. Why you would do that is beyond me. (Unless we were discussing divine acts of genocide).
“And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.”
(Genesis 18:23-33)
Originally posted by @romans1009So, due to education leading to prosperity (and potentially pridefulness) do you discourage people from becoming educated?
Not saying that at all.
My statement was based on surveys done in the United States, the specifics of which I honestly don’t remember.
But the more educated one is, the more affluent they *tend* to be as a general rule. Those who are living comfortable lives *tend* to develop pride in their security and self-sufficiency and don’t think they need Go ...[text shortened]... o are struggling or who have suffered a tremendous setback or misfortune are apt to turn to Him.
As a follow-up question,.....aren't you a teacher?!
2 edits
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeIf a shared belief in God joins a group of people together, and gives them a sense of meaning and connection to something larger than themselves, and persuades them that they ought to spend more time helping the needy, and gives them a mind-calming meditation practice in the form of prayer, then the energy is well-used, and advances the human race.
Well to be fair, it's an attack on 'those humans' who have wasted energy on such a non-existent deity, energy they could have re-directed more productively to advanced the human race as a whole.
On the other hand, if a shared belief in God justifies subjugation of women, racial and/or gender discrimination, denial of scientific truth, haughty judgmental condemnation of all outside the group, and unkind treatment of others in general, you have a point.
There are theists of both types, as well as "mixed" ones who have some of the good and the bad traits.
It's a human tendency to cling to principles that mostly work, not realizing their limits. When we continue to use them in situations that aren't suited for them, they hold us back. For example, the study of Quantum Mechanics was inhibited by continued attempts to apply classical principles.
Even though this held us back, it was probably necessary.
The real problem is that the old principles get proven to be inapplicable, yet people continue on with them. That does seem to apply more to religion than other fields of study.
Originally posted by @sonshipI notice this has become a very popular question among many Christians. I've seen it pop up in many different places. It seems to be some kind of "Gotcha" question.
Just one important question:
If the Gospel were true would you become a Christian?
Yes?
No?
Do you consider this quite a profound question, sonship?
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblemNice post. You can hang around in this thread.
If a shared belief in God joins a group of people together, and gives them a sense of meaning and connection to something larger than themselves, and persuades them that they ought to spend more time helping the needy, and gives them a mind-calming meditation practice in the form of prayer, then the energy is well-used, and advances the human race.
...[text shortened]... ople continue on with them. That does seem to apply more to religion than other fields of study.
Originally posted by @great-king-ratIt becomes decidedly less profound when it can be paralleled thusly:
I notice this has become a very popular question among many Christians. I've seen it pop up in many different places. It seems to be some kind of "Gotcha" question.
Do you consider this quite a profound question, sonship?
Just one important question:
If a chewing gum was proven to exist that could make you live for eternity, would you chew it?
Yes?
No?
Originally posted by @js357Imagination bias!
Imagination bias, if I may coin a phrase, is even more free of objectivity than confirmation bias. Of course you can "...almost imagine people being more invested in casual hedonism than in the pursuit of the abstract and 'adding value,' so to speak" If you happen to believe it already and have no need of factual information.
How exquisite.
Originally posted by @karoly-aczelI laugh and get thumbed down.
Lol
Well , he who laughs last laughs loudest.
What a crack up!
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeActually, that question makes a lot more sense, since it effectively translates as would you choose to live forever. Yes, I would.
It becomes decidedly less profound when it can be paralleled thusly:
Just one important question:
If a chewing gum was proven to exist that could make you live for eternity, would you chew it?
Yes?
No?
Sonships's question (or rather, Frank Turek's question) in comparison makes absolutely no sense.
I'm just wondering if our spiritually challenged friend actually considers it a profound question.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeNo and no.
So, due to education leading to prosperity (and potentially pridefulness) do you discourage people from becoming educated?
As a follow-up question,.....aren't you a teacher?!