1. Account suspended
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    07 Oct '10 14:393 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Rebuking your God and deliberately twisting the truth in his defense are two very different things. Too often I see you and other theists deliberately spreading misinformation, making false statements or claims our outright lying, because you think it will help you avoid rebuking your God.

    For example, your statement above is clearly false. The fact th ...[text shortened]... d or were eligible to be freed, yet we both know that slavery in the US was not alway unabusive.
    your post is naught but an unsubstantiated opinion, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions, the two systems were entirely different, please do not project your ignorance of the details to obscure this fact, what is more, i deny deliberately twisting anything, in fact it seems like the obligatory reply to most things that anti theists do not understand. Do you also read minds and hearts and are you are able to discern motives now, no? well try and stick to facts rather than unsubstantiated assertions of twisting truth and deliberately lying, you may do better, who can say? your ignorance of the details not with standing. And to prove your ignorance i would like you to detail the safeguards that were put in place to stem abuse of those in servitude to Israelites and compare them to any other system, for example the one that you mention, the American, that should at least educate you if not keep you quite from the obligatory ad hominen attacks which you seem quite fond of.
  2. Standard membergalveston75
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    07 Oct '10 14:43
    Originally posted by duecer
    In response to slavery:

    There are many things in the old testament that trouble even the most devout followers. For us to understand this issue we must look forward to the teachings of Christ. When asked about whether divorce was permissable he answered with the following:
    [b]
    Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce yo ...[text shortened]... not have the ability or wherewithall to build and maintain an extensive prison system.
    Good comment...
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    07 Oct '10 15:141 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    [b]thinking of forming an Atheist state based on the model of the Khmer Rouge?

    That's right Rob, you know me, always partial for spot of genocide first thing in the morning? Unfortunately if i did, i would be killed as i have a University education and i wear glasses. I wouldn't be up to scratch.

    I have a friend who i went to Uni with who lives ple of times to see him. When i'm there i take a little jaunt to different parts of SE Asia.[/b]
    How Ironic, I as a manual worker would live and you the educated atheist would die, hardly fair is it! We should look to another example, Albania might be better. Btw have you received your latest copy of Awake, there is a wonderful interview with professor Frantisek Vyskocil of Charles University, Prague, world renowned for his research into neurophysiology, once an atheist now a Jehovahs Witness.
  4. Standard memberProper Knob
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    07 Oct '10 15:19
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    How Ironic, I as a manual worker would live and you the educated atheist would die, hardly fair is it! We should look to another example, Albania might be better.
    Nope, as a Christian you would've been executed.
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    07 Oct '10 15:231 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Nope, as a Christian you would've been executed.
    ah yes, but Jehovah will hopefully resurrect me in time, so death has no fear for the Christian, well a little, but not that much.
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    07 Oct '10 23:551 edit
    Originally posted by duecer
    In response to slavery:

    There are many things in the old testament that trouble even the most devout followers. For us to understand this issue we must look forward to the teachings of Christ. When asked about whether divorce was permissable he answered with the following:
    [b]
    Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce yo not have the ability or wherewithall to build and maintain an extensive prison system.
    [/b]The premise for your defense of slavery is false. See the "Judaism and Slavery in the Biblical Era" thread.
  7. Joined
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    08 Oct '10 00:091 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Rebuking your God and deliberately twisting the truth in his defense are two very different things. Too often I see you and other theists deliberately spreading misinformation, making false statements or claims our outright lying, because you think it will help you avoid rebuking your God.

    For example, your statement above is clearly false. The fact th ...[text shortened]... d or were eligible to be freed, yet we both know that slavery in the US was not alway unabusive.
    Well, RC has never been one to allow facts to get in the way of what he believes. See the "Judaism and Slavery in the Biblical Era" thread.

    It's remarkable how so many who claim to worship the God of Truth have so little regard for truth. In fact, many of them downright hate truth.
  8. Standard membergalveston75
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    08 Oct '10 00:35
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Well, RC has never been one to allow facts to get in the way of what he believes. See the "Judaism and Slavery in the Biblical Era" thread.

    It's remarkable how so many who claim to worship the God of Truth have so little regard for truth. In fact, many of them downright hate truth.
    Robbie is not talking of salvery by the Jews. He is speaking of slavery in the Bible that God did allow.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

    http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/800-what-about-the-bible-and-slavery

    Laws governing slave-master relationships.
    Among the Israelites the status of the Hebrew slave differed from that of a slave who was a foreigner, alien resident, or settler. Whereas the non-Hebrew remained the property of the owner and could be passed on from father to son (Le 25:44-46), the Hebrew slave was to be released in the seventh year of his servitude or in the Jubilee year, depending upon which came first. During the time of his servitude the Hebrew slave was to be treated as a hired laborer. (Ex 21:2; Le 25:10; De 15:12) A Hebrew who sold himself into slavery to an alien resident, to a member of an alien resident’s family, or to a settler could be repurchased at any time, either by himself or by one having the right of repurchase. The redemption price was based on the number of years remaining until the Jubilee year or until the seventh year of servitude. (Le 25:47-52; De 15:12) When granting a Hebrew slave his freedom, the master was to give him a gift to assist him in getting a good start as a freedman. (De 15:13-15) If a slave had come in with a wife, the wife went out with him. However, if the master had given him a wife (evidently a foreign woman who would not be entitled to freedom in the seventh year of servitude), she and any children by her remained the property of the master. In such a case the Hebrew slave could choose to remain with his master. His ear would then be pierced with an awl to indicate that he would continue in servitude to time indefinite.—Ex 21:2-6; De 15:16, 17.
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    08 Oct '10 00:52
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Robbie is not talking of salvery by the Jews. He is speaking of slavery in the Bible that God did allow.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

    http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/800-what-about-the-bible-and-slavery

    Laws governing slave-master relationsh ...[text shortened]... awl to indicate that he would continue in servitude to time indefinite.—Ex 21:2-6; De 15:16, 17.
    See the "Judaism and Slavery in the Biblical Era" thread.

    God also allowed slavery of non-Jews.

    The "gotquestions" and "christiancourier" articles and the text you've pasted appear to be dealing in half-truths.

    The Wiki article has this disclaimer, "The neutrality of this article is disputed" at the top.
  10. Standard membergalveston75
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    08 Oct '10 00:57
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    See the "Judaism and Slavery in the Biblical Era" thread.

    God also allowed slavery of non-Jews.

    The "gotquestions" and "christiancourier" articles and the text you've pasted appear to be dealing in half-truths.

    The Wiki article has this disclaimer, "The neutrality of this article is disputed" at the top.
    I did read it and your still not getting why God allowed slavery, the conditions it was allowed and the justification of it. If you can't see or understand that in the Bible and all the referances on that subject then there is not much else I or anyone else can say to you.
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    08 Oct '10 01:082 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I did read it and your still not getting why God allowed slavery, the conditions it was allowed and the justification of it. If you can't see or understand that in the Bible and all the referances on that subject then there is not much else I or anyone else can say to you.
    If you did read it, you didn't comprehend it.

    Clearly God allowed the permanent slavery of non-Jews and their offspring that could be passed on in perpetuity according to Leviticus 25:44-46. There is no valid "justification" for this.

    You can try to spin all the half-truths and lies that you want.

    How about moving this discussion to the thread I pointed you to, rather than allow this one to be hijacked?
  12. Standard membercaissad4
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    08 Oct '10 01:08
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I did read it and your still not getting why God allowed slavery, the conditions it was allowed and the justification of it. If you can't see or understand that in the Bible and all the referances on that subject then there is not much else I or anyone else can say to you.
    So god allowed slavery here in the US until 1865? Those same passages were used for centuries to justify slavery. This begs the question: Since Abraham Lincoln did not claim to have received a message from your god changing divinely ordained slavery does he hold the title of "The Great Emancipator" or "The Great Satan"? In my life I have met people of both opinions.
  13. Standard membergalveston75
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    08 Oct '10 01:26
    Originally posted by caissad4
    So god allowed slavery here in the US until 1865? Those same passages were used for centuries to justify slavery. This begs the question: Since Abraham Lincoln did not claim to have received a message from your god changing divinely ordained slavery does he hold the title of "The Great Emancipator" or "The Great Satan"? In my life I have met people of both opinions.
    God had nothing to do with the slavery here or anywhere else on the planet after the early Christan times.
    Just because so called religious leaders as well as politicle leaders thought that they could justify their form of slavery does nothing to say God approved it. He obsolutely did not as it was cruel. He never approved of that type slavery in the past either if you would rad the postings I and Duecer posted..

    First-Century Christian Position.
    In the Roman Empire slaves were very numerous, with individuals owning hundreds and even thousands of slaves. The institution of slavery had the protection of the imperial government. First-century Christians did not take a stand against governmental authority in this matter and advocate a slaves’ revolt. They respected the legal right of others, including fellow Christians, to own slaves. That is why the apostle Paul sent back the runaway slave Onesimus. Because he had become a Christian, Onesimus willingly returned to his master, subjecting himself as a slave to a fellow Christian. (Phm 10-17) The apostle Paul also admonished Christian slaves not to take improper advantage of their relationship with believing masters. He said: “Let those having believing owners not look down on them, because they are brothers. On the contrary, let them the more readily be slaves, because those receiving the benefit of their good service are believers and beloved.” (1Ti 6:2) For a slave to have a Christian master was a blessing, as his owner was under obligation to deal righteously and fairly with him.—Eph 6:9; Col 4:1.
    The acceptance of Christianity by those in servitude placed upon them the responsibility of being better slaves, “not talking back, not committing theft, but exhibiting good fidelity.” (Tit 2:9, 10) Even if their masters treated them unjustly, they were not to render inferior service. By suffering for righteousness’ sake, they imitated the example of Jesus Christ. (1Pe 2:18-25) “You slaves,” wrote the apostle Paul, “be obedient in everything to those who are your masters in a fleshly sense, not with acts of eye-service, as men pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, with fear of Jehovah. Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as to Jehovah, and not to men.” (Col 3:22, 23; Eph 6:5-8) Such fine conduct toward their masters prevented bringing reproach upon the name of God, as no one could blame Christianity for producing lazy, good-for-nothing slaves.—1Ti 6:1.
    Of course, a slave’s ‘obedience in everything’ could not include disobeying God’s law, as that would have meant fearing men rather than God. Wrongdoing by slaves, even when committed at the direction of a superior, would not have ‘adorned the teaching of their Savior, God,’ but would have misrepresented and disgraced this teaching. (Tit 2:10) Thus, their Christian conscience would govern.
    In the Christian congregation all persons, regardless of their social status, enjoyed the same standing. All were anointed by the same spirit and thus shared in the same hope as members of one body. (1Co 12:12, 13; Ga 3:28; Col 3:11) While more limited in what he could do in spreading the good news, the Christian slave was not to worry about this. If granted the opportunity to gain freedom, however, he would take advantage of it and thereby enlarge his sphere of Christian activity.—1Co 7:21-23.
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    08 Oct '10 01:33
    Originally posted by galveston75
    God had nothing to do with the slavery here or anywhere else on the planet after the early Christan times.
    Just because so called religious leaders as well as politicle leaders thought that they could justify their form of slavery does nothing to say God approved it. He obsolutely did not as it was cruel. He never approved of that type slavery in the p ...[text shortened]... he would take advantage of it and thereby enlarge his sphere of Christian activity.—1Co 7:21-23.
    Hi galveston,

    Wasn't slavery accepted way back then? Before Jesus I mean? You seem to know the scriptures pretty well and history. The time we live in is much different then when people lived before Jesus.
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    08 Oct '10 01:45
    Originally posted by galveston75
    God had nothing to do with the slavery .....
    Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
    6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
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