Originally posted by RJHinds
Everything that the others celebrate at Christmas. What else would I be celebrating?

I dunno, A Dallas Cowgirls win?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dunno, A Dallas Cowgirls win?

Yeah, maybe that too. 😀

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

Jaywill you know I do not accept your mysticism.

What you really do not accept is the Gospel of John.
You do not accept apparently as serious, any of the words of Jesus Christ concerning His dying that He might live within those for whom He died.

Don't blame this on "my" mysticism.
I did not write John 12:24.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit."

Did I write that or did the Apostle John record what Jesus said ?
If you are short of experience then your dismissal of so-called jaywill's "mysticism" is just your not seeing the meaning of Christ's teaching.

Jesus becomes a father to all those who accept him, he gives life, everlasting life in fact.

So then why are you dismissing jaywill's so-called "mysticism" ?

For "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

In resurrection Christ, who came that we might have life and have it abundantly (John 10:10) put Himself in a form in which He could enter into our being and give us Himself. For Christ to give us Himself is for Him to give life.

What do you think? Do you think for Christ to give life only means the physical resurrection ? You are terribly short sighted if you read about Christ giving life and that is ALL you think of.

For the apostle to have life is for the available Christ to live IN Him ... NOW and not just to have the physical raised before the millennial kingdom.

" ... and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives within me ... I do not nullify the grace of God."

The grace of God is for God to dispense Christ Himself, in His available form as "life giving Spirit" INTO His lovers.

You never received Christ Himself in His available form as "life giving Spirit" into you ? Then you are not a follower of Christ. For those who do not have the Spirit of Christ are not of Him.

So says my mysticism? No, so says Romans 8:9

" ... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Rom. 8:9b)

If the Spirit of Christ which is the Spirit of God does not indwell you then you are not of Christ. Then you are not a Christian. And it does not matter how eloquently you talk about the memorial of His death.

[quote]
There is nothing mystical about it. I know of no such reference in the Bible, 'Godman', please try to control your reasoning.

The term "Godman" is not in the Bible. But you DO have the phrase "man of God" . And you DO have the term "godliness".

The books of First and Second Timothy and of Titus use "godliness" much. And they use the phrase "man of God".

You may consider Godman to be the same as the biblical phrase "man of God".

So waxing eloquent about the memorial of Christ's death while dismissing as "mysticism" the clear NT teaching of God in Christ coming to be life to His followers is really like the activity of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

You have been well trained. But you should come to Christ and realize the Russelites are cheating you.

Originally posted by sonship

Jaywill you know I do not accept your mysticism.

What you really do not accept is the Gospel of John.
You do not accept apparently as serious, any of the words of Jesus Christ concerning His dying that He might live within those for whom He died.

Don't blame this on "my" mysticism.
I did not write [b]John 12:24.

"Truly, ...[text shortened]... ve been well trained. But you should come to Christ and realize the Russelites are cheating you.

No i fully accept the gospel of John and the entire Biblical cannon, what I do not accept is your extra biblical usage of terms like Godman with reference to Jesus the Christ, son of the living God.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No i fully accept the gospel of John and the entire Biblical cannon, what I do not accept is your extra biblical usage of terms like Godman with reference to Jesus the Christ, son of the living God.

You should accept it.

If the Word was God and became flesh as John 1:1,14 states, then Christ is God / Man. So, for Jesus Christ, by His incarnation, Jesus is Godman.

I told you above that the term "godliness" is practically an equivalent to Godman. And now here is the proof that that is so, first in regards to the incarnation:

"And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness:

He who was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen of angels,
Preached among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory." (1 Timothy 3:16)

How can this NOT refer to Jesus Christ ?
And the term "godliness" is what is being described.

So first of all the term Godman can be used to describe God manifest in the flesh. And this manifestation of God in humanity is the gospel preached in First Timothy and in John's Gospel which you say you entirely accept.

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and reality." (John 1:14, RcV)

Then is Jesus Christ - Godman ?

Originally posted by sonship
You should accept it.

If the Word was God and became flesh as [b]John 1:1,14 states, then Christ is God / Man. So, for Jesus Christ, by His incarnation, Jesus is Godman.

I told you above that the term "godliness" is practically an equivalent to Godman. And now here is the proof that that is so, first in regards to the incarnation:
...[text shortened]... he Father, full of grace and reality." (John 1:14, RcV) [/b]

Then is Jesus Christ - Godman ?[/b]

Please spare me these well trodden cattle paths.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Please spare me these well trodden cattle paths.

Argument by boredom is not impressive.

You have no counter to these clear examinations of the Scripture because your training for Watchtower discipleship is bankrupt with deception.

You CAN'T argue against the New Testament.

Originally posted by sonship
Argument by boredom is not impressive.

You have no counter to these clear examinations of the Scripture because your training for Watchtower discipleship is bankrupt with deception.

You CAN'T argue against the New Testament.

I am not here to impress you. I have provided both historical, linguistic and scriptural reasons why your pagan disguised doctrine is ludicrous. I simply cannot be bothered discussing it with you any more, you failed to accept the logic and sound reasoning the first time. You refused to read any of the references that were provided for you. I simply have better things to do with my time than remonstrate with you on the matter again. Its an entirely futile exercise. It has nothing to do with the watchtower magazine, being spiritually bankrupt or devoid of reason as you assume. Why rehash the same sound logic and reason when it evaded you entirely in the past. I cannot find a reason either.

i am not arguing against the so called New testament. Try to say something true, just for once and learn what it feels like.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not here to impress you. I have provided both historical, linguistic and scriptural reasons why your pagan disguised doctrine is ludicrous. I simply cannot be bothered discussing it with you any more, you failed to accept the logic and sound reasoning the first time. You refused to read any of the references that were provided for you. I sim ...[text shortened]... so called New testament. Try to say something true, just for once and learn what it feels like.

Don't be such an objectionable toe-rag robbie. When I see you criticising a Christian for holding what you deem as "ludicrous" beliefs it makes my want to slap you.

Originally posted by divegeester
Don't be such an objectionable toe-rag robbie. When I see you criticising a Christian for holding what you deem as "ludicrous" beliefs it makes my want to slap you.

Gee that's big talk from a guy with a pansy avatar.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Gee that's big talk from a guy with a pansy avatar.

I'm a subscriber and authentic supporter of this site. You are freeloading non-sub scum.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm a subscriber and authentic supporter of this site. You are freeloading non-sub scum.

yes but you still have a pansy avatar for a guy that uses fighting words.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but you still have a pansy avatar for a guy that uses fighting words.

I am in touch with my sensitive sensual romantic side. You should try it one day instead of allowing your cult to deprive you of certain pleasures of the opposite sex.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

You are arguing against the New Testament. There is not the slightest hesitation with me to believe that that statement is true.

Don't read my posts about your teaching if you're bored. I don't need you to read them.

========================================
This Jehovah's Witness started this thread I suppose to flatter some people that he is respectful of the death of Christ. So he writes about the memorial of His death.

Fine. But he doesn't at all plumb the depths of Christ's death in all three of its biblical connotations.

Christ died a redemptive death.
Christ died a terminating death.
Christ died a germinating death.

1.) Christ died a redemptive death to atone in a judicial way for the legal penalty of law breaking that lies upon every sinner. He shed His blood as a propitiatory sacrifice. This truth is briefly seen in John 1:29 -

"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)

Christ died as the Redeemer to save us from the judgment of God's righteous wrath against our sins.

2.) Christ also died a terminating death. He died to put to destruction the one evil one in this universe who has the power of death - the Devil. Christ died to terminate him and his power in man.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life." (John 3:14,15)

This is profound and one must go back to Numbers 21:4-9 to read about the symbolism Christ is drawing from. Moses was told to make a brass [judgment] serpent and lift it up on a pole. The serpent poisoned people were healed if they looked up upon the brass serpent lifted up on a pole.

Christ applied this incident as a pointed to Himself. He died not only as the Lamb of God for redemption but as the brass serpent to terminate Satan -

Hebrews 2:14 - "Since therefore the children have shared in blood and flesh, He also Himself in like manner partook of the same that through death He might destroy him who has the might of death, that is the devil. "

In the eyes of God Christ died looking like Satan the serpent nailed on a cross to be terminated, to be judged. Christ became sin for us on the cross.

So says Second Corinthians 5:21

English Standard Version
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

New American Standard Bible
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

I don't think they teach the people anything about this down at the JW kingdom hall because they have no revelation and no experience.
Christ's death carries a terminating power to kill off the influence of the evil spirit "operating in the sons of disobedience " [b](Eph. 2:2).

Christ is the real Terminator who died as the brass [judged] serpent lifted up on a pole.

3.) Lastly, Christ died the death of One to multiply what He was. He died as one to duplicate, expand, and increase His enjoyment of living the divine life that many others may be produced who live the divine life.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

In other words, what He was, He died to reproduce. I am one of the millions of grains reproduced by the multiplicative aspect of Christ's death. I am in the process of learning to live by that inward divine life.

Christ then went from being Onlybegotten Son to being in addition "the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)

Every sinner who receives Christ will eventually be LIKE Christ. For Christ died to multiply what He was so that He would not "abide alone".

We cannot share in His redemptive work. But being saved into Him we can be "conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers."

This is different from Christ being "Firstborn of all creation" (Col. 1:15) . This is the Firstborn Son as the beginning and the Head of His mystical Body the church.

"And He is the Head of the Body [of sons of God] , the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He Himself might have the first place in all things." (Col. 1:18)

To repeat, briefly, Christ died for three aspects -

Redemption
Termination
Germination (multiplication)

And if robbie is not up to the task of refuting this let him invite one of his Watchtower teachers from the JW kingdom hall to this chess forum. And I'll educate from the New Testament one of his teachers instead.

Originally posted by sonship
You are arguing against the New Testament. There is not the slightest hesitation with me to believe that that statement is true.

Don't read my posts about your teaching if you're bored. I don't need you to read them.

========================================
This Jehovah's Witness started this thread I suppose to flatter some people that he is res ...[text shortened]... to this chess forum. And I'll educate from the [b]New Testament one of his teachers instead.[/b]

You are wasting your time, i did not read anything beyond the first line of your text. You are unable to believe anything but your own propaganda. Thats enough for me to understand that no truth that has passed your lips. I also resent your blatancy false assertions that this thread was started with any intent other than bringing to honest peoples attention the memorial of Christ's death. No one believes your propaganda except for you. I certainly don't and in fact as far as I can discern you have not made a truthful statement yet.