The Moral Argument for God's Existence

@fmf said
How did I "reject" it? I am pointing out your inconsistency, that's all. Back in October you pointedly declined to claim you were "born again" because you had clumsily boxed yourself into a corner of your own making when you'd declared that "anyone can claim to be 'born again'". I asked you if you did, and you deflected, and wriggled out of it and then went silent on the matter.

I don't recall the context, but no matter what it was, yes it happen over 30 years ago.

@kellyjay said
I don't recall the context, but no matter what it was, yes it happen over 30 years ago.

I do not reject your subjective claim about yourself that you think you are "born again" in some supernatural sense.

@fmf said
I do not reject your subjective claim about yourself that you think you are "born again" in some supernatural sense.

Are there any subjective claims that you do reject?

“When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything.” GK Chesterton.

@fmf said
I do not reject your subjective claim about yourself that you think you are "born again" in some supernatural sense.

That is the long and short of this life. All claims when they are tested by reality will be true or not. Opinions are nothing but points of views, believing someone has one is useless as it gets.

@kellyjay said
That is the long and short of this life. All claims when they are tested by reality will be true or not. Opinions are nothing but points of views, believing someone has one is useless as it gets.

Recognizing what other people's beliefs are is not "useless" at all. But claiming such a thing is your prerogative.

@fmf said
I do not reject your subjective claim about yourself that you think you are "born again" in some supernatural sense.

Do you believe it is possible for a 'subjective claim' (as you put it) to be true or are they all just shots in the dark?

@fmf said
Recognizing what other people's beliefs are is not "useless" at all. But claiming such a thing is your prerogative.

So claiming that what you had wasn’t real so you denounced it doesn’t therefore mean, everyone who has a similar claim you used to believe in must have the very same false faith. Your experience doesn’t mean everyone else’s is a false faith, based on untrue beliefs as yours were.

@kellyjay said
So claiming that what you had wasn’t real so you denounced it doesn’t therefore mean, everyone who has a similar claim you used to believe in must have the very same false faith. Your experience doesn’t mean everyone else’s is a false faith, based on untrue beliefs as yours were.

Well, because of my experience, I am an agnostic atheist and that means I have a certain perspective.i do not claim it is anything other than a subjective one.

@kellyjay said
Your experience doesn’t mean everyone else’s is a false faith, based on untrue beliefs as yours were.

Well, you're still a believer, so it's no surprise you see it this way. Your faith is based on the same beliefs as mine used to be. Whether they are "true" or not is completely within the realm of our subjectivity.

@fmf said
Well, you're still a believer, so it's no surprise you see it this way. Your faith is based on the same beliefs as mine used to be. Whether they are "true" or not is completely within the realm of our subjectivity.

The truth doesn't have anything to do with us. We can believe whatever we want,
but in the end reality will simply be what it is with or without us.

@kellyjay said
The truth doesn't have anything to do with us. We can believe whatever we want,
but in the end reality will simply be what it is with or without us.

Of course. That's why all your assertions about 'everlasting life' and being 'forgiven' and 'saved' and Jesus rising from the dead and a 'Lake of Fire' and all the rest of it are your subjective opinions and do not have much to do with "objective" facts. Like you say, the "truth" with regard to these supernatural phenomena ~ whatever it is ~ doesn't have anything to do with how strongly or sincerely we believe the things we believe. So,once again, we are in agreement.

@dj2becker said
Are there any subjective claims that you do reject?

“When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything.” GK Chesterton.

What a silly quote!
Demonstrably false.

The attribution gives it no added weight.

@wolfgang59 said
What a silly quote!
Demonstrably false.

The attribution gives it no added weight.

Within a framework of moral relativism everything goes.

@fmf said
Of course. That's why all your assertions about 'everlasting life' and being 'forgiven' and 'saved' and Jesus rising from the dead and a 'Lake of Fire' and all the rest of it are your subjective opinions and do not have much to do with "objective" facts. Like you say, the "truth" with regard to these supernatural phenomena ~ whatever it is ~ doesn't have anything to do with how strongly or sincerely we believe the things we believe. So,once again, we are in agreement.

I agree, it doesn't, but what it does have to do with is the reality of God. That does
not change, the Lake of fire is no different if real the denial of it will not change the
fate of all about to go there. If opinions are all that matter than nothing about
life revolves around is based upon anything other than how we think about it, but
we are not that important. We were created, we are not the creators of the life
we live.

@dj2becker said
Within a framework of moral relativism everything goes.

Logic doesn't 'go'.