1. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Aug '09 10:13
    According to the dictionary definition of 'occult', Fundamentalist Protestants and traditionalist Catholics are occultists.

    It's obvious, no?
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    18 Aug '09 10:21
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    According to the dictionary definition of 'occult', Fundamentalist Protestants and traditionalist Catholics are occultists.

    It's obvious, no?
    What is the definition according to your dictionary? To speak with out-of-this-world people?
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Aug '09 10:28
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    What is the definition according to your dictionary? To speak with out-of-this-world people?
    "Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena."
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    18 Aug '09 10:30
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    "Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena."
    According to that definition, all followers of any religion are occultists. Because religions have elements of supernatural phenomena.
  5. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Aug '09 10:40
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to that definition, all followers of any religion are occultists. Because religions have elements of supernatural phenomena.
    That may well be the case, given obvious exceptions. However, in my experience, Fundamentalists use 'occult' as a synonym for 'evil' and would be shocked to hear God referred to as an occult power.

    For example, in his advice column, Billy Graham wrote, "There are supernatural or occult powers and forces at work in the world—forces that do not come from God but are actually opposed to Him."
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    18 Aug '09 10:50
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    That may well be the case, given obvious exceptions. However, in my experience, Fundamentalists use 'occult' as a synonym for 'evil' and would be shocked to hear God referred to as an occult power.

    For example, in his advice column, Billy Graham wrote, "There are supernatural or occult powers and forces at work in the world—forces that do not come from God but are actually opposed to Him."
    Well, let's ask the occultists themselves: According to wikipedia it is by the most practicing occultists "simply the study of a deeper spiritual reality that extends beyond pure reason and the physical sciences".

    Occultism has nothing to do with evil or good. Only those who are afraid of occultism, who see occultism as a threat to their beliefs, can say that these powers are evil, a basic retoric trick to demonize your enemies or those you are afraid of.

    "Study of a deeper spiritual reality that extends beyond pure reason and the physical sciences", that does look like the christian beliefs to me.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Aug '09 13:43
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to that definition, all followers of any religion are occultists. Because religions have elements of supernatural phenomena.
    I have to agree with that, Fabian. But I also believe the language is changing. As it always does..
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    18 Aug '09 13:50
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    According to the dictionary definition of 'occult', Fundamentalist Protestants and traditionalist Catholics are occultists.

    It's obvious, no?
    Care to post that definition you are refering to?
    Kelly
  9. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Aug '09 14:01
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Care to post that definition you are refering to?
    Kelly
    hi Kelly,
    I think this is an example of where a broad defintion of a word can cover a range of meanings. Wouldn't you say? I think we all have a GENERAL idea of what 'occult' means .
    I also think I know what Bosse is trying to get at. It may be a bit of a cheap shot but I think it is well within the bounds of decency of him to make it. What do you think?
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Aug '09 14:26
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    hi Kelly,
    I think this is an example of where a broad defintion of a word can cover a range of meanings. Wouldn't you say? I think we all have a GENERAL idea of what 'occult' means .
    I also think I know what Bosse is trying to get at. It may be a bit of a cheap shot but I think it is well within the bounds of decency of him to make it. What do you think?
    I posted the definition.

    Cheap shot?!
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Aug '09 14:36
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I posted the definition.

    Cheap shot?!
    Hey in my opinion it was a broad definition which is currently being subject to some change . Its 'street' definition is currently broadly understood. At least in my neck of the woods .(Brisbane,Australia)
    You were well within your rights to make that comment, (as I reffered to) 🙂
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    18 Aug '09 14:40
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    According to the dictionary definition of 'occult', Fundamentalist Protestants and traditionalist Catholics are occultists.

    It's obvious, no?
    The dictionary definition you have given so far, does not really capture the full essence of the common usage of the term.
    However, the word almost certainly has different meaning to different people. I suspect that those who call themselves 'occultists' have a very different picture from the rest of us.
    Your quote from Billy Graham shows that for some it has connotations of evil. I suspect though that he did not actually think through the meaning of his statement but simply wanted a word that sounded scary.

    Also I must ask, if someone believes in the existence of ghosts or other popular supernatural phenomenon, are they 'occultists' or must one actively wish to study or communicate with such phenomena? I know plenty of Christians who believe in the existence of ghosts, magic, and other supernatural phenomena that are not specifically part of the Christian religion. Clearly Billy Graham is no exception.
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Aug '09 14:532 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead

    Also I must ask, if someone believes in the existence of ghosts or other popular supernatural phenomenon, are they 'occultists' or must one actively wish to study or communicate with such phenomena? I know plenty of Christians who believe in the existence of ghosts, magic, and other supernatural phenomena that are not specifically part of the Christian religion. Clearly Billy Graham is no exception.
    Unless God is manifest, attempting to communicate with God is occultism, by definition.

    A ghost that appears to you is not hidden, so I guess occultism doesn't apply 😕 If you try to call one up, on the other hand, the case is clear.
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    18 Aug '09 17:283 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The dictionary definition you have given so far, does not really capture the full essence of the common usage of the term.
    However, the word almost certainly has different meaning to different people. I suspect that those who call themselves 'occultists' have a very different picture from the rest of us.
    Your quote from Billy Graham shows that for some t are not specifically part of the Christian religion. Clearly Billy Graham is no exception.
    ============================
    I know plenty of Christians who believe in the existence of ghosts, magic, and other supernatural phenomena that are not specifically part of the Christian religion. Clearly Billy Graham is no exception.
    =============================


    I doubt that you can back up that Billy Graham believed in ghosts.

    He may have acknowledged the practice of magic.

    But that Graham believed that the departed spirits of dead persons had any interaction at all with the living, as the typical understanding of "ghosts" is, ....? I wouldn't hold my breath while you searched for evidence of Billy Graham having believed in that.

    That is unless you consult with some libelous, anti-Christian Gospel, skeptical website claiming to know all about it.
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    18 Aug '09 17:45
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    According to the dictionary definition of 'occult', Fundamentalist Protestants and traditionalist Catholics are occultists.

    It's obvious, no?
    ===============================
    According to the dictionary definition of 'occult', Fundamentalist Protestants and traditionalist Catholics are occultists.

    It's obvious, no?
    =========================


    What does "the dictionary" say about a Sensationalist ?
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