The Ox Goad god

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I'm guessing froggy's going in the opposite direction. The Sumerians were guuud people - until those conniving and theiving Jews stole their language, their god(s) and their women. Then the Jews destroyed this advanced and peaceful civilisation with their monotheistic delusions - sort of like the Holocaust (but in reverse and 3,000 years early).

Playing to the gallery, LH?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Playing to the gallery, LH?

Why? Don't you?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Why? Don't you?

You used to be above that sort of thing. Glad to see you've abandoned the moral high ground! (3 edits to change your mind back to the same thing?)

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You used to be above that sort of thing. Glad to see you've abandoned the moral high ground!

Schadenfreude.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Schadenfreude.

I don't know if you're ready for that yet.

So you're clear on the Aleph-Lamed / Ox-goad derivation now?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I don't know if you're ready for that yet.

So you're clear on the Aleph-Lamed / Ox-goad derivation now?

You're the one who's ready for schadenfreude.

Yes, I see the Aleph-Lamed/Ox-goad thing. But how is it different from (say)

BUSH = Bu + Sh = Tent Tooth?

EDIT: In other words, what's the evidence that it is indeed how El came to be named?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
You're the one who's ready for schadenfreude.

Yes, I see the Aleph-Lamed/Ox-goad thing. But how is it different from (say)

BUSH = Bu + Sh = Tent Tooth?

EDIT: In other words, what's the evidence that it is indeed how El came to be named?

I am tired...but I will try to answer you. Look into the names of the Sumerian gods and you will find that the pictograms used to name them are not arbitrary. The name of the primal ocean, Mother-Sea, is written with the pictogram denoting "sea"; she gave birth to the universe and the god An-Ki, "sky-earth", was born...his name being written with the pictograms denoting "sky" and "earth". And so on.
(Don't know if this site has been cited but it's not a bad one for the collection: http://www.geocities.com/spenta_mainyu_2/sumer1.htm)

Now that you know the pictograms used to write the names of the Sumerian gods were not arbitrary but literally depicted qualities of the beings referred to (and did learned Sumerians literally believe in their existence? Were they understood as beings or principles?), perhaps you could offer an explanation of why the name of EL was written with the Ox-goad pictogram.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I am tired...but I will try to answer you. Look into the names of the Sumerian gods and you will find that the pictograms used to name them are not arbitrary. The name of the primal ocean, Mother-Sea, is written with the pictogram denoting "sea"; she gave birth to the universe and the god An-Ki, "sky-earth", was born...his name being written with the p ...[text shortened]... uld offer an explanation of why the name of EL was written with the Ox-goad pictogram.

Thanks for that.

"El" could be the name of a Sumerian pastoral god that the Israelites adopted for the name of their own God. Or maybe they started off worshiping a Sumerian god and later retained the name for the Supreme Being.

Originally posted by frogstomp
No, just people that formed the first civilization. The first culture that had writing, to go along with a fairly large network of cities. It's thieir writing that makes us consider them as having the first civilization.

Then what's wrong with lending some words from this great civilisation ? It should be considered a great compliment.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Then what's wrong with lending some words from this great civilisation ? It should be considered a great compliment.

this is one of the things wrong with it:

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/God/el-goi.htm

is that different gods?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I am tired...but I will try to answer you. Look into the names of the Sumerian gods and you will find that the pictograms used to name them are not arbitrary. The name of the primal ocean, Mother-Sea, is written with the pictogram denoting "sea"; she gave birth to the universe and the god An-Ki, "sky-earth", was born...his name being written with the p ...[text shortened]... uld offer an explanation of why the name of EL was written with the Ox-goad pictogram.

Basicly I'm leaning toward the idea that Judism is a displacement theology.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Basicly I'm leaning toward the idea that Judism is a displacement theology.

Except for that pesky thing called history, you may be on to something!

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Except for that pesky thing called history, you may be on to something!

this history?:

http://ancientneareast.tripod.com/Sumer.html

or this one?:

http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/

maybe this one? :

http://wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/SUMER.HTM

this one? :

http://history-world.org/sumeria.htm

Originally posted by frogstomp
this history?:

http://ancientneareast.tripod.com/Sumer.html

or this one?:

http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/

maybe this one? :

http://wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/SUMER.HTM

this one? :

http://history-world.org/sumeria.htm

I don't completely fault the content of the sites provided: there is some validity to a great deal of what is found there (despite the very dated information on one of them). What I do fault is haphazard and sloppy conclusions of some who make broad, generalized determinations utilizing small slivers of information.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I don't completely fault the content of the sites provided: there is some validity to a great deal of what is found there (despite the very dated information on one of them). What I do fault is haphazard and sloppy conclusions of some who make broad, generalized determinations utilizing small slivers of information.

Small slivers of the same materiel that makes up the foundation of your religion is not making a broad generalization. No matter how you try to wiggle out of it, you religion was 'borrowed ' from the Sumerians. All that is , except the name El, they 'borrowed' that from the semites that lived in Canaan.