1. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    03 Oct '12 00:03
    quote:
    We tell ourselves stories in order to live” claims Joan Didion, a
    modern American writer who has thought lots about stories. “We
    look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson
    in the murder of five,” she continues.

    ...

    Does a primal need for narrative, as Reynolds Price suggests, provoke
    these stories? If so, where might the memories of experience intersect most
    fully with a corresponding quest for meaning? To what extent is every narrative
    something made, something formed—something, for example, with a beginning
    and an ending; something that has a completeness because of its narrative shape;
    something, finally, that exceeds the gritty details of actual experience (those details
    that are so often beyond comprehension in the actual moment of experience, yet
    the very essence that insistently begs for this comprehension nonetheless) in its
    essential cry for meaning?

    unquote

    http://wlajournal.com/23_1/images/bowie.pdf
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
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    Moves
    91614
    03 Oct '12 00:292 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    quote:
    We tell ourselves stories in order to live” claims Joan Didion, a
    modern American writer who has thought lots about stories. “We
    look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson
    in the murder of five,” she continues.

    ...

    Does a primal need for narrative, as Reynolds Price suggests, provoke
    these stories? If so, where might t ...[text shortened]... ss) in its
    essential cry for meaning?

    unquote

    http://wlajournal.com/23_1/images/bowie.pdf
    If you find an aborigonal in the outback , and you hang with him/her for a few hours/days (😉 ), sooner or later they'll say "do you want me to tell you a story?"

    I realize the words are the same as you would use for 4 year old to send them to The Sandman for 9 hours, but the context is beyond me to even try to communicate the many nuances accosiciated with that sort of line. In my way of thinking, an aborigonal elder saying " do you want me to tell yous a story? " is similar to a fledgling Tibetan monk asking his master "What is the Buddha?" . ( "Buddha" here loosely synonymous with "God" for "western minds". Ultimately wrong, but it does not hide the fact, rather it encourages you to trust in your own "truth" , and develop an unshakeable faith does is so unshakeable that it is completely undetectable, except for maybe a "witch doctor" or sorts,hihihihi)

    edit: this little ditty is up there in the spirit of poetic license and such, if you want to point out the flaws, feel free, but that is (part of ) the point!!
    To JS, I've never heard it put like that ,( "primal need for a narrative" ), but I would say "Yes". I do think there is something about story telling that is one of the most enjoyable, enriching,etc,etc, experiences that you could have. Either telling or just listening to a master story teller for hours .....AhhhhhhhBliss
  3. Joined
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    6788
    03 Oct '12 06:24
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    If you find an aborigonal in the outback , and you hang with him/her for a few hours/days (😉 ), sooner or later they'll say "do you want me to tell you a story?"

    I realize the words are the same as you would use for 4 year old to send them to The Sandman for 9 hours, but the context is beyond me to even try to communicate the many nuances accosici ...[text shortened]... ng or just listening to a master story teller for hours .....AhhhhhhhBliss
    Thank you for your considerate response. I would like the idea that we seek narratives for our lives, to get more discussion here, but this forum seems to be more attuned to Christian/anti-Christian dialogues. Maybe I should just ask is there is another place I could go?
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
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    03 Oct '12 07:20
    Originally posted by JS357
    Thank you for your considerate response. I would like the idea that we seek narratives for our lives, to get more discussion here, but this forum seems to be more attuned to Christian/anti-Christian dialogues. Maybe I should just ask is there is another place I could go?
    Would you explain how this is important to Spirituality?
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
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    07 Oct '12 04:38
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Would you explain how this is important to Spirituality?
    It's bringing it home for the brothers, ok?

    This is a "Spirituality forum" not a christian one, for the umpteenth time. A narrative is one of the best ways to get ideas across without making people feel "unworthy", and what not.

    What kind of lame arse question is that for a christian? where my kid gets taught christian (spiritual) stories every week at school.
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Infidel
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
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    45641
    07 Oct '12 05:02
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Would you explain how this is important to Spirituality?
    The post belongs more in this forum than you do on this site.
  7. Joined
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    6788
    07 Oct '12 05:371 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Would you explain how this is important to Spirituality?
    Our acceptance of the correct narrative for our lives, is just about all you talk about here. But if you don't get that, maybe you don't belong here in the sense that you don't really understand or care about spirituality.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
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    07 Oct '12 06:33
    Originally posted by JS357
    Our acceptance of the correct narrative for our lives, is just about all you talk about here. But if you don't get that, maybe you don't belong here in the sense that you don't really understand or care about spirituality.
    So it has to do with accepting the correct spiritual narrative for our lives. I have ben trying to tell you guys that it is the Holy Bible. That is the standard for spiritual truth. All others are deceptions from the Devil. Maybe, that is the reason I am still here. Because you guys don't understand the truth that leads to eternal life. And I am not referring to what is in the JWs book.

    http://www.bible.ca/JwsPermission.htm
  9. Joined
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    6788
    07 Oct '12 06:532 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    So it has to do with accepting the correct spiritual narrative for our lives. I have ben trying to tell you guys that it is the Holy Bible. That is the standard for spiritual truth. All others are deceptions from the Devil. Maybe, that is the reason I am still here. Because you guys don't understand the truth that leads to eternal life. And I am not referring to what is in the JWs book.

    http://www.bible.ca/JwsPermission.htm
    You say, "So it has to do with accepting the correct spiritual narrative for our lives."

    It seems I have put it in terms that you understand and accept. If so, I am happy for that. Because I think finding our narrative has everything to do with our spirituality.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
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    07 Oct '12 07:101 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    You say, "So it has to do with accepting the correct spiritual narrative for our lives."

    It seems I have put it in terms that you understand and accept. If so, I am happy for that. Because I think finding our narrative has everything to do with our spirituality.
    The correct narrative will lead to Christ Jesus for He is the only door to eternal life. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. 😏

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
  11. Standard memberavalanchethecat
    Not actually a cat
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    07 Oct '12 08:16
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The correct narrative will lead to Christ Jesus for He is the only door to eternal life. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. 😏

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
    Fascinating, I imagine. So, which chess engine are you using today?
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
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    148435
    07 Oct '12 08:42
    Originally posted by JS357
    quote:
    We tell ourselves stories in order to live” claims Joan Didion, a
    modern American writer who has thought lots about stories. “We
    look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson
    in the murder of five,” she continues.

    ...

    Does a primal need for narrative, as Reynolds Price suggests, provoke
    these stories? If so, where might t ...[text shortened]... ss) in its
    essential cry for meaning?

    unquote

    http://wlajournal.com/23_1/images/bowie.pdf
    Could it be we not only want to know why things are they way they are, but
    NEED too as well. Stories bring many things out to light in answering our
    endless questions.
    Kelly
  13. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    24 May '10
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    7680
    08 Oct '12 00:14
    Originally posted by JS357
    quote:
    We tell ourselves stories in order to live” claims Joan Didion, a
    modern American writer who has thought lots about stories. “We
    look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson
    in the murder of five,” she continues.

    ...

    Does a primal need for narrative, as Reynolds Price suggests, provoke
    these stories? If so, where might t ...[text shortened]... ss) in its
    essential cry for meaning?

    unquote

    http://wlajournal.com/23_1/images/bowie.pdf
    Been away for a few days.

    Interesting topic. The concept of "story" is a core thing in human search for meaning. All forms of mythology are essentially stories. They spring up readily about any prominent figure, transforming into legend. Cultures are initially formed around their core stories. Karoly's reference to the Australian aborigines is most apt. Their whole culture is centered around the relaying and dancing out of mythic stories, of the "Dreamtime" but myths that have deep emotional power and meanings in relation to the land that they are so close to. They also preserve important survival facts in a harsh and unforgiving environment, particularly in the outback.

    Some find it difficult to separate a story from a literalistic interpretation of its elements. They find it difficult to appreciate poetry and narrative as essential conveyers of deep truths. It seems as if for them the only way of truth is through imagined literality. I don't think its just a modern western thing. Humans ability to think abstractly and indirectly about truth varies. Some humans are only able to think pretty concretely. The advantage of a story is that both ways can be inclusive paths to meanings. The literalist, lacking abstract skills, appears to find this hardest to appreciate.
  14. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    24 May '10
    Moves
    7680
    08 Oct '12 00:42
    Originally posted by JS357
    Thank you for your considerate response. I would like the idea that we seek narratives for our lives, to get more discussion here, but this forum seems to be more attuned to Christian/anti-Christian dialogues. Maybe I should just ask is there is another place I could go?
    The forum is dominated by many fundamentalist Christians, often "talking shop". Almost out of a sense of desperation for the wider use of this forum on significant spiritual discussion, I have tackled them in confronting of their limited and unfactual views, rather than ignore them and let them take the whole show. But you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. The focus then remains on one limited religious discussion and not wider philosophy and other views.

    I don't know what to do, really, and have looked for other chess sites but haven't found any that have such a forum. I just plead for others, passing by, who have abandoned the forum, with good reason, to return and increase the odds the other way. Most of the discussions, overtly about "religion" are little more than debates - (more appropriate for that forum, although they speak with more civility there lol!), - which is not spirituality or "life-meaning" philosophy in my understanding. The form of speaking to each other leaves a lot to be desired. Constant RJH-like non-participative inanities are unhelpful. There is virtually no moderation at all, except it you use a swearword, even in appropriate literary non-abusive context! I did so once and couldn't believe it. Deprecate anyone all you like, just don't swear! lol!

    I like the combination and it was what initially attracted me to RPH.
    Sometime ago, the discussions were of higher and more varied quality.
    Perhaps I expect too much.

    The "narrative" has deteriorated.
    Perhaps it will be soon, last one out, turn off the lights. Pity.
  15. Joined
    22 Dec '11
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    18461
    08 Oct '12 01:18
    Originally posted by JS357
    quote:
    We tell ourselves stories in order to live” claims Joan Didion, a
    modern American writer who has thought lots about stories. “We
    look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson
    in the murder of five,” she continues.

    ...

    Does a primal need for narrative, as Reynolds Price suggests, provoke
    these stories? If so, where might t ...[text shortened]... ss) in its
    essential cry for meaning?

    unquote

    http://wlajournal.com/23_1/images/bowie.pdf
    Are these narratives not a manifestation of what an Atheist would call the 'God of the gaps', a way of corralling everything we experience but cannot explain from the far reaches of the universe to our own deep subconscious?
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