Originally posted by FMFWhat I said was, to you, supply the quotes by sonship that supports your assertion. And you ran away except to pop in on cue with more obfuscations.
It's you who is running away from several posts addressing what you've said.
What I said to divegeester was to provide the Bible verses that refer to hell. How difficult can that be?
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Originally posted by FMF
It's sonship who promotes the eternal torture doctrine, not me. If it's "unscriptural" and "unbiblical", as you claim, .tackle him on it.
It's sonship who promotes the eternal torture doctrine, not me.
I promote complete salvation through Jesus Christ.
What I have written on this Forum about eternal punishment has been a defense as to why I believe it exists.
I don't consider my giving reply to your and others attacks against a portion of those things taught by Jesus as necessarily to "promote" them. I am not ashamed to say that I believe everything that Christ taught.
I promote salvation through Christ from the guilt and power of sin.
Well, I do promote some that God's enemies will be completely vanquished, I suppose.
And why not ?
And for the few fellow Christians here who cannot accept that I would believe in "eternal punishment", I both understand and have dropped some names of a few prominent evangelical teachers who have likewise distanced themselves from it.
My belief is that we simply vastly underestimate offense of choosing our sin over God's Son be our salvation. The fallen man reasons "It doesn't really matter if I am reconciled to God. It is no big deal if I am not reconciled to God."
There is not bigger deal apparently. It is not honest to me to rationalize against this by slandering God as being petty or torturous in a sadistic way. This is added effects all imagined to promote that concept that being un-reconciled to God should be no matter of importance.
Originally posted by sonshipjosephw has described your notion that "God" subjects non-believers to torture (by burning) for eternity as "unscriptural" and "unbiblical". Oddly, he seems to want to tackle me about it rather than you. Indeed, it seems as if he doesn't even want to acknowledge that it is your belief and that you have been "teaching" it here for years.
What I have written on this Forum about eternal punishment has been a defense as to why I believe it exists.
Originally posted by FMFWhere I entered into the discussion it seemed that he was asking you to furnish evidence of me teaching something or other. He just asked for your evidence as far as I can see with little immediate judgment whether I was right or wrong.
josephw has described your notion that "God" subjects non-believers to torture (by burning) for eternity as "unscriptural" and "unbiblical". Oddly, he seems to want to tackle me about it rather than you. Indeed, it seems as if he doesn't even want to acknowledge that it is your belief and that you have been "teaching" it here for years.
i am going to make the assumption that to go hunt for whatever evidence he asked of you was too much of a nuisance to go find. Either that or the evidence you have doesn't REALLY suggest what someone said it does.
If the argument was about eternal punishment, over the years when it comes up I have defended why I personally believe the matter is taught. Each reader of the Bible will have to make up his or her mind.
Originally posted by sonshipOn page 9, josephw said "Of course God doesn't "torture" people for not believing in Him. You're stuck in an unbiblical narrative. The idea that God tortures people is unscriptural."
Where I entered into the discussion it seemed that he was asking you to furnish evidence of me teaching something or other. He just asked for your evidence as far as I can see with little immediate judgment whether I was right or wrong.
There seems to be a pretty clear judgement that he thinks you are wrong there.
Originally posted by sonshipWhy should I make your doctrinal case for you when you have made it yourself so many times?
i am going to make the assumption that to go hunt for whatever evidence he asked of you was too much of a nuisance to go find. Either that or the evidence you have doesn't REALLY suggest what someone said it does.
Originally posted by sonshipWhat's interesting is that josephw chooses not to address you directly about the doctrine you "teach", but instead makes comments about how he doesn't believe it is correct to other people who also don't believe it. It's peculiar behaviour, to say the least. And, the way you are addressing ME here about what josephw has said about your "teaching" being wrong - rather than you addressing HIM about what he said - is also peculiar behaviour.
If the argument was about eternal punishment, over the years when it comes up I have defended why I personally believe the matter is taught. Each reader of the Bible will have to make up his or her mind.
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Originally posted by FMFI'm curious to know whose moral standards you are using to judge the actions of God? If they are your own and only apply to you and no one else I see no point in you making any moral judgements about anyone apart from yourself.
On page 9, josephw said "Of course God doesn't "torture" people for not believing in Him. You're stuck in an unbiblical narrative. The idea that God tortures people is unscriptural."
There seems to be a pretty clear judgement that he thinks you are wrong there.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou've said this kind of stuff before but showed no inclination to discuss it in good faith. You've missed the boat will me. I believe you are just trolling. Do it to someone else.
I'm curious to know whose moral standards you are using to judge the actions of God? If they are your own and only apply to you and no one else I see no point in your making any moral judgements about anyone apart from yourself.
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Originally posted by FMFI am not trolling you, I am asking you a serious question. One that I have asked you multiple times and you always dodged it or pretended that you have answered it. I predict that you will once again show no inclination to discuss it and call me a troll just as you have done in the past.
You've said this kind of stuff before but showed no inclination to discuss it in good faith. You've missed the boat will me. I believe you are just trolling. Do it to someone else.
Here it is: "If you do not have an objective standard of morality by which you can determine what is right or wrong, then what gives you the right to make moral judgments upon Nazi Germany or the God of the Bible?"
We both know why you refuse to answer it.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou said all this kind of stuff before and you ignored all attempts to engage you, and didn't even acknowledge that I was answering your questions (see the "Hitler" thread for example where there remain countless long, thought-out posts that you simply blanked out), choosing instead to simply repeat the same assertions and questions over and over and over again.
I am not trolling you, I am asking you a serious question. One that I have asked you multiple times and you always dodged it or pretended that you have answered it. I predict that you will once again show no inclination to discuss it and call me a troll just as you have done in the past.
Here it is: "If you do not have an objective standard of morali ...[text shortened]... dgments upon Nazi Germany or the God of the Bible?"
We both know why you refuse to answer it.