The Unchristian Christian

Originally posted by AProdigy
Forgive me if I am repeating a previous post. I read only the pages 1 and 5, so...

I wanted to share my view on something that seams to be tripping some folks here up. There are may posts which seam to indicate that faith in God and belief in God are the same thing. To believe in God does not require you to put your trust in God. It does not require ...[text shortened]... friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.[/i]

Great post! Except....
Jonah certainly believed in God but did not have faith in him, for he failed to trust in God.

Jonah did have faith in God. Jonah hated the people of Nineveh, and he did not want to go preach to them like God told him to because he was worried they might repent. Jonah wanted them all to go to hell, and have the wrath of God come upon them.
Jonah hated them with a passion. They were a evil people.
After Jonah did go preach in Nineveh, (by Gods Help, lol) The people did repent and turned to God. Jonah was so mad at God for not destroying Nineveh and giving the people a chance to repent that Jonah refused to talk to God, and refused to eat, and sat in the middle of the desert hoping to die because he was so mad.
And that's all that is written about Jonah. We don't know what happened in the end with him.

Originally posted by rwingett
.......Any god worth his salt would reward the "right action" of the individual and not be so concerned that he maintain the "right belief."......

Christ said over and over that 'right action' is the key to salvation. One of the lessons of the parable of the good samaritan, is that 'right action' is more important that 'right belief'.

Originally posted by KingDavid403

Jonah did have faith in God. Jonah hated the people of Nineveh, and he did not want to go preach to them like God told him to because he was worried they might repent.

I understand what you are saying, but I still think that you are only partially understanding faith. Jonah certainly believed in God and understood God. But he lacked faith in Gods judgment, feeling that his judgment of the Ninevites was superior to Gods. If I do not trust the guidance of something, I lack full faith in it.

For example, we might use driving directions from MapQuest.com. I only have partial faith in those directions because they have proved unreliable in the past. In addition, the website give a disclaimer to the accuracy of given directions. God, of course, gives no disclaimer.

To have complete faith in God is to obey him without fail. (Notice that I did not say "without question," because I believe it appropriate to ask God for understanding.)

Like Jonah, however, we often have our faith tested and come up short. Yet hopefully, like Jonah, the Lord will reach out to reassure us and our faith will be strengthened as a result.

Originally posted by Rajk999
He could not have said that to me because I am not rich and I dont have 'great possessions'. If you have understood the spirit of the teachings of Christ you would know that he does not expect perfection, He wants some kind of effort. He does not want you (not you personally) to claim that 'I am saved' and then sit back and relax and do nothing. This is know many Christians do.

Matthew 10:37 "He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me."

My interpretation of the rich man that encountered Jesus was that he loved his riches more than God. Thus he could not bare to part ways with it. You might say that Christ took a look inside his heart and assessed this. One does not have to be rich, however, for things in ones life to come before God. The question is, is there anything in our lives that come before him? It all comes down to who and what you love the most.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said over and over that 'right action' is the key to salvation. One of the lessons of the parable of the good samaritan, is that 'right action' is more important that 'right belief'.

I think the point people are trying to make is, If you think you can work your way to heaven by doing good works then you, or we, really didn't need Jesus to die on the cross for us in the first place.

For it is by grace that we are saved. Thru faith in God. Not by works lest any man should boast.

And the word also says in James chapter 2 that if you have real faith in Gods grace that you will have good works. Faith without works is DEAD FAITH. Meaning you don't have the love of God or compassion of God in you if you don't show the love of God when you have the chance to.

The good samaritan parable is a great exsample of Gods true love for all of us, in action. The man that got robbed and beat up was a jewish man that Jesus was reffering to.
The first people who walked by this man on the road did not help him what so ever. They were jews. They had no love or compassion on him and did not care. And one of the people that walked by was even a priest. The man needed help.

Samaritans were half breeds. Half jewish and half heathens. They were treated like crap by the jews. So bad that they all had to leave the jewish people and live elsewhere.
Therefore this jewish man that was robbed and beat up and naked was a almost a enemy to the samaritan. The jews and the Samaritans did not get along with each other and the samaritans were hated by the jews and treated like dogs.
Jesus even told the samaritan woman at the well that the samaritans were considered dogs by the jews. And that HE did not come for the dogs but for the lost sheep of Isreal. Then the woman said to Jesus even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table. And Jesus was amazed and said He had never seen such faith in all the jews.
The samaritan was the one who showed the love of God and compassion and mercy on his enemy, the jewish man that was beat up. And helped him and took care of him until he was better.

Originally posted by AProdigy
I understand what you are saying, but I still think that you are only partially understanding faith. Jonah certainly believed in God and understood God. But he lacked faith in Gods judgment, feeling that his judgment of the Ninevites was superior to Gods. If I do not trust the guidance of something, I lack full faith in it.

For example, we might use ...[text shortened]... Jonah, the Lord will reach out to reassure us and our faith will be strengthened as a result.

I agree. You are correct. 🙂

Originally posted by KingDavid403
I think the point people are trying to make is, If you think you can work your way to heaven by doing good works then you, or we, really didn't need Jesus to die on the cross for us in the first place.

For it is by grace that we are saved. Thru faith in God. Not by works lest any man should boast.

And the word also says in James chapter 2 th ...[text shortened]... y, the jewish man that was beat up. And helped him and took care of him until he was better.

Well said.
Kelly

Originally posted by KingDavid403
The good samaritan parable is a great exsample of Gods true love for all of us, in action. ....

Who did God love ? The beaten up man, the preist, the Levite ?
It cant be the good samaritan. Becuase he aint getting salvation. His works is futile and 'filthy rags' ... correct ?

Whats the chance of Christ telling a parable to illustrate the 'love thy neighbour' principle and the hero of the story goes to hell. And the 'faith without works' jokers in the story get salvation.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Who did God love ? The beaten up man, the preist, the Levite ?
It cant be the good samaritan. Becuase he aint getting salvation. His works is futile and 'filthy rags' ... correct ?

Whats the chance of Christ telling a parable to illustrate the 'love thy neighbour' principle and the hero of the story goes to hell. And the 'faith without works' jokers in the story get salvation.

It's clear you did not read my posts fully, Either that or you didn't understand what I meant at all.
I think you are getting to angry by pressing your point.

Faith without Works is DEAD, FAITH!

We are saved by God's grace threw faith, (in HIM.) Not by works lest any man should boast.

The two go together, and work together.

If you saw a man beat up along side the road & half dead,

1. Would you walk by and pretend you didn't see him, and think to yourself at least I'm saved I go to church and believe in God. I will pray for this poor fellow, as you are walking away not helping him at all??

2. Or would you say" Wow, this is a great chance for me to get some brownie points with God. I'll get into heaven forsure, and God will be pleased with me, if I take the time and help this guy,??

3. Or would you have love and compassion for the poor fellow and just help him out, the way you would want someone to help you out if it were you laying there??? Not expecting anything in return from God or the man you helped out.

What would God want you to do, or be like??

Whats the chance of Christ telling a parable to illustrate the 'love thy neighbour' principle and the hero of the story goes to hell. And the 'faith without works' jokers in the story get salvation
I never said or thought anything of the sort.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
It's clear you did not read my posts fully, Either that or you didn't understand what I meant at all.
I think you are getting to angry by pressing your point.

Faith without Works is DEAD, FAITH!

We are saved by God's grace threw faith, (in HIM.) Not by works lest any man should boast.

The two go together, and work together.

If yo ...[text shortened]... okers in the story get salvation
I never said or thought anything of the sort.[/b]

I am not getting angry. Thats how I speak sometimes.
The correct answer is #3.

I never said or thought anything of the sort.

You never said that, I agree. So I now ask your opinion and the opinion of anyone reading this post. Bearing in mind that Christ was answering a question on how to get salvation and the importance of 'loving thy neighbour', should'nt there be a logical end to the 3 actors in the parable as to who is likely to get salvation ?
Is it the priest ? Is it the Levite? Is it the Samaritan ?
None ? All ? We cant decide ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I am not getting angry. Thats how I speak sometimes.
The correct answer is #3.

[b] I never said or thought anything of the sort.

You never said that, I agree. So I now ask your opinion and the opinion of anyone reading this post. Bearing in mind that Christ was answering a question on how to get salvation and the importance of 'loving thy neighbou ?
Is it the priest ? Is it the Levite? Is it the Samaritan ?
None ? All ? We cant decide ?[/b]

According to the parable, The Samaritan did right in the eyes of God.

But remember the priest and Levite's whole life were dedicated to God supposedly.
They kept the laws of God pretty well. Payed their tithes, Kept the commandments, etc, But they did not have love in their hearts for their follow man.
They did many works for God, But did not have the love of God in them. They thought by keeping the letter of Gods law (works so to speak) it would save them and keep them right with God. But no love, or care, or concern for their follow man was found in them anywhere. They had hard hearts!
I think this is what Jesus was trying to teach them with this parable. Also for them that Jesus was talking to, to look into their hearts and see if it's right according to God's will. And pray and change to become right with God if it is not.
And Jesus is really talking to all of us.


As far as who get's salvation with God? That is up to God. He is the perfect judge. Not me or anyone. God says He will have mercy on who HE choose's. Not on what anyone else choose's.

The whole law of God is true LOVE, True Love for God and true love for your follow man. Not just to be nicey nicey to their face when they are around but to have true love for them. As you love yourself. This is what Jesus always taught.