1. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '14 13:451 edit
    Revelation 12:1,2

    And a great sign was seen in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

    And she was with child, and she cried out, travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth."


    Three light giving aspects of this woman reveal that she is a totality of spiritual light.

    1.) The stars that form a crown around on her head represent the patriarchs, saints of God before the age of the law. These would include people like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. These are saints prior to the giving of the law of Moses. And they are exalted as a crown upon the bright woman's head.

    2.) The moon underneath her feet represent the saints of the age of the law. This would include all the believers in God after the Exodus with Moses up until the time of the establishment of the new covenant church.

    The moon does not possess its own light. It reflects the shining of the sun. And the law's light is a reflection of shining of the Son of God Who is perfection in obedience to God.

    The moon underneath the woman's feet does not show disrespect but subjection. Because of Christ God's people are saved by He who is the end of the law.

    3.) The sun clothes the major part of the woman. This represents the new testament age of grace. Christ as the sun of righteousness cloths the vaster portion of this woman. For Christ having come as the light of the world has justified and clothed the greater portion of all God's people.

    This Woman therefore represents the totality of God people throughout the entire history of mankind. The age of the patriarchs before the law is represented. The age of the law is represented. And the new testament age is represented.

    The vision of the universal bright woman is very much like the vision Joseph had of his father, mother and brothers being God's testifying people on earth at that time.

    Genesis 37:9 - "And he [Joseph] had still another dream and told it to his brothers and said, Now I have had another dream: There were the sun and the moon and eleven stars, bowing down to me."

    That was the family of Jacob, the family of Israel as the testifying people of God on the earth at that time. By extrapolation the universal bright woman must be the testifying people of God throughout all the ages.

    This woman becomes the New Jerusalem in chapters 21 and 22 of Revelation.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '14 14:02
    This woman is "clothed with the sun, and they moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." In Gen. 37:9, Joseph in his dream saw the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars, signifying his father, his mother, and his eleven brothers. There the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars, plus Joseph himself, signified the totality of God's people on earth. Based on the principle of that dream, the sun, the moon, and the twelve stars here must signify the totality of God's people on earth, which here by a woman.


    Most of her being is clothed with the sun - God's people in the New Testament age. For before Jesus Christ came to the world, it was the dark night of the Old Testament age. Christ's coming was the rising sun come from on high.

    Luke 1:76 - 79 - "And you also, little child [John the Baptist], shall be called a prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord [Christ] to prepare His way.

    Because of the merciful compassions of our God, in which tje rising sun will visit us from on high,

    To shine upon those sitting in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide out feet into the way of peace."


    When Jesus came the age of the sun came. Before that, it was the age of the moon, which signifies God's people in the Old Testament times. The moon is underneath the feet of the woman, for the age of the moon was the age of the law, which should not be exalted as the stars are.

    The stars, which stand for the patriarchs, God's people before the law was given, are on the woman's head as a crown. All God's people in these three ages, who together constitute this woman, are light bearers.

    This universal bright woman is shining throughout all generations.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Aug '14 14:38
    Originally posted by sonship
    [quote] This woman is "clothed with the sun, and they moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." In Gen. 37:9, Joseph in his dream saw the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars, signifying his father, his mother, and his eleven brothers. There the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars, plus Joseph himself, signified the totality of God ...[text shortened]... woman, are light bearers.

    This universal bright woman is shining throughout all generations.
    You should really concentrate on actually living here and now rather than obsessing over the bible like you do.

    You forget you actually have a life here and just assume this life is shyte so I'll wait till I get to heaven. That is just a fairy tale, you are just one of the billions of duped ones, so deeply programmed you cannot wake up and smell the coffee.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '14 15:503 edits
    "Last things first." Unlike the unbeliever and the skeptic we are energized to live today because we know the final victory is ours.

    All atheists will come to God in unconditional surrender.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '14 16:20
    From The Glorious Church by Watchman Nee

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n




    Revelation 12:1 says, "And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Who is the woman described here? She is a woman over whom many Bible students have had much dispute. Some have said that she signifies Mary, the mother of the Lord Jesus. Others have said that she stands for the nation of Israel. However, according to the Scriptures this woman can neither be Mary, the mother of the Lord, nor the nation of Israel. Here are the reasons:

    (1) Since this vision is revealed in heaven, this woman is entirely of heaven. Neither Mary nor the nation of Israel have this position.

    (2) After this woman bore the man-child, she fled into the wilderness. If we liken this woman to the nation of Israel, the man-child she brought forth to Christ, and the man-child being caught up to the ascension of Christ, this does not correspond with the actual facts. Although the nation of Israel was scattered, her going into the wilderness was not the result of Christ's ascension. At the time Christ ascended, Israel had already been dispersed for some time and was no longer a nation. But here we see that the woman fled into the wilderness after the man-child was caught up unto God. Long before Christ ascended, the nation of Israel was gone. Therefore, it is impossible for this woman to be a reference to the nation of Israel. There is even less of a basis to refer to her as Mary.

    (3) While this woman was in travail to bring forth the man-child, she encountered a dragon. This dragon had seven heads and ten horns. Chapter seventeen tells us that these seven heads are seven kings: five have fallen, one is still existing, and the other has not yet come. The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, who will arise afterwards. We know that no such historical events occurred before Christ ascended. Therefore, this woman and the man-child must refer to things in the future. If we say that this woman refers either to the nation of Israel or to Mary and that the man-child refers to the Lord Jesus, we are contradicting history.

    (4) After the man-child was caught up unto God, there was war in heaven, and Satan was cast down to the earth. Then there was a proclamation in heaven: "Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night" (Rev. 12:10). We know that this has not yet been accomplished. Ephesians 6 tells us that the church on earth must still battle with the rulers, authorities, and spiritual forces of evil in the heavenlies. Satan is still there. Since this portion of Scripture has not yet occurred, it is impossible for it to be a reference to the time of Jesus.

    (5) When the dragon was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man-child. Many people use this as a confirmation that the woman is Mary. After Mary gave birth to the Lord Jesus she did flee to Egypt; however, she did not do this at the Lord's ascension. Verses 14 through 16 say, "And to the woman there were given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness into her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast water as a river out of his mouth after the woman that he might cause her to be carried away by its current. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth." Whether it is said that this woman is a reference to Mary or to the nation of Israel, we know from history that no such thing happened when Christ ascended to heaven. Therefore, this woman cannot be a reference to Mary or to the nation of Israel.

    (6) There is one more proof. Verse 17 says, "And the dragon became angry with the woman and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus." After the man-child, who was born of the woman, was caught up to the throne, a remnant of her seed still remained upon the earth. This could not be Mary. Furthermore, this remnant keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus. It is all right to say that the nation of Israel kept the commandments of God, but to say that the nation of Israel held the testimony of Jesus would mix the Old Testament with the New Testament. In conclusion, it is impossible for this woman to be Mary or the nation of Israel.
  6. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Aug '14 17:401 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    "Last things first." Unlike the unbeliever and the skeptic we are energized to live today because we know the final victory is ours.

    All atheists will come to God in unconditional surrender.
    I was talking to YOU about your obsession. You don't have to live in the religious world 24/7 without thinking about such subjects as mowing the lawn, seeing that beautiful lady across the street, having a delicious lunch, watching a great movie, look at the stars through a telescope, seeing your children grow and learn.

    These are up front in your face human experiences which you no doubt downgrade to well nigh worthless in your 24/7 obsession with your religion.

    I am quite sure if your god exists, it would not require you to be totally obsessed like you are, just living your life and know you are in good hands in the religious sense is all you need. You don't have to write page after page of religious scripture which has already been written about LITERALLY millions of times in the past in the exact way you are doing right now.

    I am sure a real god would look at your obsession and go, that dude is totally obsessed, he needs a good talking to, we didn't want humans to be THAT obsessed with gods. They have their own lives to live, wives to enjoy, education to obtain when young, all the things humans do, they sure don't need to be obsessed with us gods.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Aug '14 00:00
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I was talking to YOU about your obsession. You don't have to live in the religious world 24/7 without thinking about such subjects as mowing the lawn, seeing that beautiful lady across the street, having a delicious lunch, watching a great movie, look at the stars through a telescope, seeing your children grow and learn.

    These are up front in your face ...[text shortened]... o obtain when young, all the things humans do, they sure don't need to be obsessed with us gods.
    Fist bump

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    26 Aug '14 00:57
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Fist bump

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
    You prove your deep conditioning.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Aug '14 02:10
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I was talking to YOU about your obsession. You don't have to live in the religious world 24/7 without thinking about such subjects as mowing the lawn, seeing that beautiful lady across the street, having a delicious lunch, watching a great movie, look at the stars through a telescope, seeing your children grow and learn.
    Trying to characterize posting spirituality related posts on a Spirituality Forum as "obsession" is a risible attempt to land one on sonship's chin and it is a swing and a miss on your part. If he posted about watching great movies on a forum dedicated to the topic "great movies", and you tried to condescend him by saying that he clearly had nothing in his life except for watching great movies, then your attempt to belittle him would be equally lame. 🙂
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    26 Aug '14 08:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    Trying to characterize posting spirituality related posts on a Spirituality Forum as "obsession" is a risible attempt to land one on sonship's chin and it is a swing and a miss on your part. If he posted about watching great movies on a forum dedicated to the topic "great movies", and you tried to condescend him by saying that he clearly had nothing in his life except for watching great movies, then your attempt to belittle him would be equally lame. 🙂
    But that is ALL he posts. Sounds like obsession to me.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Aug '14 20:341 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    But that is ALL he posts. Sounds like obsession to me.
    He is a seeker after God and the truth. I am not sure that he has an obsession or that all obsessions are a bad thing. After all, you seem to be obsessed with attacking the credibilty and character of those that believe in the God of the Holy Bible, which seems to be worse to me. So maybe you should lay off that obsession for awhile and concentrate on what you believe is more important.
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    26 Aug '14 22:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    He is a seeker after God and the truth. I am not sure that he has an obsession or that all obsessions are a bad thing. After all, you seem to be obsessed with attacking the credibilty and character of those that believe in the God of the Holy Bible, which seems to be worse to me. So maybe you should lay off that obsession for awhile and concentrate on what you believe is more important.
    You are the poster boy for obsession. I have a real life, kids, grandkids, a full time job, a home recording studio, study astronomy, evolution, geology, math.

    You do one thing, call anyone numbnuts to anyone not falling down at your feet and submitting to your non existent bible god.
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    27 Aug '14 00:52
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] Revelation 12:1,2

    And a great sign was seen in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

    And she was with child, and she cried out, travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth."


    Three light giving aspects of this woman reveal that she is a totality of spi ...[text shortened]... l the ages.

    This woman becomes the New Jerusalem in chapters 21 and 22 of Revelation.[/b]
    Revelation 21:9Amplified Bible (AMP)

    9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven final plagues (afflictions, calamities) came and spoke to me. He said, Come with me! I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.

    This also desribes this woman.....

    But is this a real woman? Does Jesus really get married?
  14. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    27 Aug '14 01:06
    Originally posted by galveston75
    But is this a real woman? Does Jesus really get married?
    I believe he was married, yes. But not any more. Just the other day I overheard my neighbor
    exclaiming to her ex-husband, "Jesus, are you back here again?"
  15. Standard membersonship
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    27 Aug '14 01:36
    More from The Glorious Church by Watchman Nee

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

    (I'll be back to discuss serious posts latter)



    Who then is this woman? The Old Testament shows that only one woman encountered the serpent—Eve in Genesis 3. In the New Testament there is also only one woman who encounters the serpent. Here we see the correspondence and correlation of the Scriptures, the beginning with the end. Furthermore, God particularly points out that the great dragon is the old serpent. This means that He is referring to the serpent who had been mentioned once before. God makes the point clear that it was that one and only old serpent. The emphasis is on the word "the"—the old serpent. Therefore, the woman mentioned here must also be that woman.

    The sun, moon, and stars mentioned in Genesis 1 are mentioned in Revelation 12 in the same principle. As the serpent was in Genesis 3, so the serpent is here also. The seed of the woman mentioned in Genesis 3 is also mentioned here. Furthermore, the travail of birth is in Genesis 3, and it is also here. If we put these two portions of Scripture together, we can surely see that the woman in Revelation 12 is the woman whom God purposed in His eternal will. Everything that will happen to her at the end time is clearly stated here. The woman in Genesis 2 speaks of God's eternal purpose; the woman in Ephesians 5 speaks of the position and future of the church; and the woman in Revelation 12 reveals the things at the end time. In addition to these three women, there is another woman who shows forth the things in eternity.

    When the woman appeared in the vision, the Scriptures pointed out firstly that she was "clothed with the sun, and the moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (12:1). These facts are very meaningful in reference to the ages.

    (1)The woman was clothed with the sun. The sun refers to the Lord Jesus. Her being clothed with the sun means that when the sun shines the brightest, it is shining upon her. In this present age, God is revealing Himself through her. This shows her relationship with Christ and the age of grace.

    (2)The woman had the moon underneath her feet. This phrase "underneath her feet" does not mean that she is treading upon it. According to the Greek, it means that the moon is subject at her feet. The light of the moon is a reflecting light; it has no light of its own. All the things in the age of the law merely reflected the things in the age of grace. The law was but a type. The temple and the ark were types. The incense, the showbread in the Holy Place, and the sacrifices offered by the priests were all types, as well as the blood of the sheep and oxen. The moon underneath the feet of the woman means that all things pertaining to the law are subordinate to her. This speaks of her relationship to the age of the law.

    (3)The woman had a crown of twelve stars upon her head. The chief figures in the age of the patriarchs were from the time of Abraham to the twelve tribes. The crown of twelve stars upon her head speaks of her relationship to the age of the patriarchs.

    In this way, we see that the woman is not only related to the age of grace, but also to the age of the law and the age of the patriarchs. However, she is more closely related to the age of grace. She includes all the saints in the age of grace, as well as all the saints from the ages of the law and the patriarchs.



    THE BIRTH OF THE MAN-CHILD

    Revelation 12:2 says, "And she was with child, and she cried out, travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth." Being with child is figurative and not real. What does it mean to be with child? It means that a child is in the mother's womb, and the child and the mother are united in one body. When the mother eats, the child is nourished. When the mother is ill, the child is also affected. The condition of the mother is the condition of the child. The mother and the child are one.

    However, this child is also different from the mother; he is another being. If you say that they are one, they are really one, for the child receives life from the mother. However, as far as his future is concerned, he is different. His future is entirely distinct from that of his mother. Immediately after he is delivered, he is caught up to the throne of God, while his mother flees into the wilderness.

    In addition, while the woman is with child, all that can be seen is the mother; the child is hidden. Outwardly, it appears as if there is only the mother. The child assuredly exists, but he is hidden within the mother; he is included in the mother.

    Verse 3 says, "And another sign was seen in heaven; and behold, there was a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems." That serpent after several thousand years is completely different. Originally it was a serpent, but now it has been enlarged to become a dragon. What is the form of this dragon? It has seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon its heads. It has the same appearance as the beast which rises up out of the sea. Revelation 13:1 says, "And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems." The beast which rises out of the sea also has seven heads and ten horns with crowns. This reveals Satan's goal—he wants to gain the crowns, which signify authority. The difference between the dragon and the beast is that the crowns of the dragon are upon its heads, while those of the beast are upon its horns. The heads signify the authority to decide, and the horns signify the authority to execute. The heads control and the horns execute. In other words, the horns are subject to the commands of the heads. Whenever the heads move, the horns follow. This means that all the behavior of the beast is under the control of the dragon.

    Revelation 12:4 begins, "And his tail drags away the third part of the stars of heaven, and he cast them to the earth." Isaiah 9:15 shows that the tail denotes lying and deception. In Revelation 2 and 3, stars refer to angels. Since the stars of heaven are mentioned here, they are the angels. One third of the angels in heaven were deceived by the dragon, and they fell and were cast down with the dragon.

    Verse 4 continues, "And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bring forth, so that when she brings forth he might devour her child." Here is a woman whom God has purposed in His will and a man-child whom He desires to obtain. But the dragon is hindering what God is after in the woman. The dragon knows that this woman is about to bear a man-child; therefore, it stands before the woman and waits to devour her child as soon as she delivers.
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