The Wisdom of Witness Lee

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Is that evidence verifiable?

I just implied that it was.
If I thought it totally was not I would not have written the previous post.

Your microscope or other scientific instrument cannot verify salvation.
And every evidence of Jesus being God become a man was very strong. In spite of this there are those who have a vested interest in claiming that they see no evidence.

Do you think those who cried out "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" had not seen ANY evidence at all of His claims to be God's Son? I think they didn't want to believe any evidence that He was the Son of God.

Pushback expected from you is - "Are you comparing yourself to Jesus then? "

Get it off your chest if that's your next move. Then I'll deal with that complaint.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Is that evidence verifiable?

I just implied that it was.
If I thought it totally was not I would not have written the previous post.

Your microscope or other scientific instrument cannot verify salvation.
And every evidence of Jesus being God become a man was very strong. In spite of this there are those who have a vested inter ...[text shortened]... then? "

Get it off your chest if that's your next move. Then I'll deal with that complaint.

So actually no, it's not verifiable.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I think the Gospel certainly it adequately verifiable.
Yet we do walk by faith and not by sight.

You accept a lot more and other things with less then 100% mathematical like PROOF.

Be honest. Concerning the words of Jesus you set a much higher bar because much more seems to be at stake.

To think one needs forgiveness from God is an immediate admission that his ego is not on the throne of the universe. And some fight that with everything in them. - ie. "It cannot BE that I am not the master of all things."

Part of the process of submitting to the love of Christ is realizing that some of that opposition rising up in your mind is not completely you. Some of it is Satan's fear of losing his GRIP on you.

So there is a mixture of fears. Some is the sinner's. But some is the sinner's master - the Devil. Each slave of sin he loses is a tactical further defeat to his kingdom.

A critical mass of lost captives will mean his departure into the lake of fire.

Ghost,

You see you are skeptical about mingling of two lives.
But what do you think happened to Adam and his descendants?

We got mixed up with God's enemy.
We got polluted, poisoned.

You may start to consider that we got mingled with the WRONG one. And God's salvation is to save us from that to be united with the Right One - the Uncreated Life - God.

@sonship said
Ghost,

You see you are skeptical about mingling of two lives.
But what do you think happened to Adam and his descendants?

We got mixed up with God's enemy.
We got polluted, poisoned.

You may start to consider that we got mingled with the WRONG one. And God's salvation is to save us from that to be united with the Right One - the Uncreated Life - God.

Adam who?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Adam who?

Adam, the first man.

If you don't believe there was a first man and woman Adam and Eve I think the point still stands regardless. The life that we live is one of mixture. And it is an evil, corrupting mixture. It is a spoiling mixture defacing the human life by dragging it down captive to living against the better judgments of the human conscience.

What you approve of you are not able to carry out too often.
What you disapprove of you are driven to do too often.

Something is haywire in our constitution.
Though there is a knowledge of good and evil there is too often no corresponding power to do the good and resist the evil.

" But I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? " (Rom. 7:23,24)

Ghost thankyou for starting a thread in which it would be quite normal now to quote Brother Witness Lee.
On what I wrote above, he had some helpful things to say from Romans chapter seven. (my bolding)

C. The Law of Sin (and Death)

However, in our members is a third law, the law of sin, which wars against the law of good. As we have seen, the law of sin is in the members of our fallen body, the flesh (vv. 17, 18, 20, 23). It constantly wars against the law of good and makes man a captive (v. 23). Whenever the law of good responds to the law of God and attempts to fulfill the requirements of the law of God, the evil law in our flesh is aroused. If the good law should fail to respond, the evil law would perhaps remain dormant, as if it were sleeping. However, when the evil law learns that the good law is responding, the evil law seems to say, “Are you going to practice good according to the law of God? I will not allow this!” The evil law wars against the law of good and invariably captures us. Thus, we become a captive in the law of sin which is in our members. This is not a doctrine; this is our life-history.

The command “Husbands, love your wives” sounds so good and easy to fulfill. When this command is given, the law of good in a man's mind immediately responds, “Yes, I will do it.” However, the evil law in his flesh learns of this and answers, “Are you going to fulfill this law? Don't you know that I am here?” The result is defeat. Instead of loving his wife, he may slap her face or throw his knife and fork in anger. Wives have a similar experience when they try in themselves to keep the law which tells them to submit to their own husbands. The good law in the wife's mind is fond of this demand and says, “I will obey. As a good wife, I must surely submit myself to my husband. I will do this.” If a woman says this, she will find that another law is waiting for an opportunity to attack. The evil law will say, “Do you believe that you can do this? I am here to show you that you cannot.” Once again, the result is failure. Instead of submitting to her husband, she becomes angry at him instead. A few minutes later, she weeps because of her pitiful situation. This is the experience of Romans 7.

From Life Study of Romans by Witness Lee (messages given around the 1975,75 time frame)

https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=2BEC0AFA0A

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Adam who?

Adam, the first man.

If you don't believe there was a first man and woman Adam and Eve I think the point still stands regardless. The life that we live is one of mixture. And it is an evil, corrupting mixture. It is a spoiling mixture defacing the human life by dragging it down captive to living against the better judgmen ...[text shortened]... Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? " (Rom. 7:23,24) [/quote]

We evolved as a species. We did not descend from an original pair of fully formed humans in a garden.

Sorry. We just didn't.

@sonship said
Ghost thankyou for starting a thread in which it would be quite normal now to quote Brother Witness Lee.

You're welcome. In particular, it brought to light this quote by him:


'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

And this gem of numerological nonsense:

"The unique Creator, God, is triune, signified by the number three. Since the creation is represented before God by four living creatures (Revelation 4:6-9), the number four signifies creatures, especially man. Hence, three plus four means that God is added to the created man, and thus His purpose is being accomplished. The church is not only the creature, but the creature with the Creator as the Triune God dispensed into her. She is the real number seven: the real three, the Triune God, added to the real four, created man. Therefore the number seven denotes completion in God’s move, first in the old creation and then in the new creation, the church."

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

We evolved as a species. We did not descend from an original pair of fully formed humans in a garden.

Sorry. We just didn't.

You don't know that.
You just don't. Sorry.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

Its funny that I have asked you to supply the entire quotation. I'd like to see what is in the place holders of the ellipses, the "..." .
Why won't you?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

That is quite helpful to some with a living spirit for spiritual insight.

Even you might notice that there is repetitive reference to numbers in the book of Revelation.
Some inquisative minds would consider if there is some significance to these patterns of reuse.

4, 5, 6,
7, 8
12 .

Not everyone jumps over the possible key significances of the usages of these numbers.
Neither is the opposite extreme the rule - "You can get nothing from the Bible UNLESS you know the significance of certain numbers."

I take a middle of the road, sober approach.
I see significance.
I don't see such significance as to make the Bible simply a code book.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

[quote] 'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organ ...[text shortened]... n. I'd like to see what is in the place holders of the ellipses, the "..." .
Why won't you?

I provided you with the full quotation as I found it. (And 'where' I found it). If you want to read what came before or after it then it's for you to do the leg work.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

That is quite helpful to some with a living spirit for spiritual insight.

Even you might notice that there is repetitive reference to numbers in the book of Revelation.
Some inquisative minds would consider if there is some significance to these patterns of reuse.

4, 5, 6,
7, 8
12 .

...[text shortened]...
I see significance.
I don't see such significance as to make the Bible simply a code book.

There is no significance.