1. Joined
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    09 May '19 07:451 edit
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    And this gem of numerological nonsense:

    "The unique Creator, God, is triune, signified by the number three. Since the creation is represented before God by four living creatures (Revelation 4:6-9), the number four signifies creatures, especially man. Hence, three plus four means that God is added to the created man, and thus His purpose is being accomplished. The c ...[text shortened]... notes completion in God’s move, first in the old creation and then in the new creation, the church."
    It’s utter waffle isn’t it.
    It’s not scriptural, it’s meaningless religious hyperbole.
  2. Joined
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    09 May '19 07:46
    @sonship said
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    That is quite helpful to some with a living spirit for spiritual insight.

    Even you might notice that there is repetitive reference to numbers in the book of Revelation.
    Some inquisative minds would consider if there is some significance to these patterns of reuse.

    4, 5, 6,
    7, 8
    12 .

    ...[text shortened]...
    I see significance.
    I don't see such significance as to make the Bible simply a code book.
    What are you on about?
  3. Joined
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    09 May '19 08:02
    @sonship said
    Some inquisative minds would consider if there is some significance to these patterns of reuse.

    4, 5, 6,
    7, 8
    12 .

    Not everyone jumps over the possible key significances of the usages of these numbers.
    Comes across as a bit of a pagan affectation. Then again, incorporating pagan stuff was very much on the agenda at the time when Revelation was concocted.
  4. R
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    09 May '19 11:521 edit
    Scripture obviously sometimes puts emphasis on numbers as to imply a significance or meaning to them.

    A good example is the genealogy of CHrist in Matthew. After the author goes through the ancestors of Jesus back to Abraham he writes this summary:

    Matthew 1:17

    "Therefore all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;
    and from David to the carrying away to Babylon fourteen generations;
    and from the carrying away to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations."


    So some of us Christians that is noteworthy - three sections of fourteen generations each = forty two generations.
    Forty two is a number meaning rest after trial. This is like forty two stations before Israel entered into Canaan, I think.


    The three blind mice here Ghost, FMF, and Divegeester see nothing in it.

    Another place in Scripture, I pointed out before (this is repeat stuff now), occurs when Jesus implied significance to the numbers associated with two miracles He performed.

    And Jesus knowing it says to them, Why do you reason because you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive nor understand? Is your heart hardened?

    Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember?

    When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?
    They said to Him, Twelve.

    And when I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets filled with broken pieces did you take up?
    And they said, Seven.

    And He said to them, Do you not yet understand? (Mark 8:17-21)


    So while the three blind mice here, Ghost, Divegeester, and FMF unite to poo-poo the belief of some Christians that numbers in Scripture carry significance, out of the mouth of Word Himself, we have good reason to believe so.
  5. Joined
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    09 May '19 11:551 edit
    @sonship said
    Scripture obviously sometimes puts emphasis on numbers as to imply a significance or meaning to them.

    A good example is the genealogy of CHrist in Matthew. After the author goes through the ancestors of Jesus back to Abraham he writes this summary:

    Matthew 1:17 [/b]
    Therefore all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations
    The problem I have with the exercise of numerology in the Bible is that most of the assumptions and declarations that people draw from it are complete nonsense.

    For example your three lots of “fourteen generations”, why is that significant, specifically?
  6. R
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    09 May '19 12:103 edits
    @divegeester

    The problem I have with the excessive of numerology in the Bible is that most of the assumptions and declarations that people draw from it are complete nonsense.


    The thread is on "The Wisdom of WItness Lee".
    I would not say Lee's treatment of the numbers is "excessive".
    I think it is measured.
    And I think whatever point he makes by references to number usage he usually can make in plain words elsewhere in the teaching of the Bible.

    Guilt by association, as others may have gone overboard, would not discourage me from learning something from Witness Lee's measured and balanced reference to numbers in the Bible.
  7. R
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    09 May '19 12:101 edit

    For example your three lots of “fourteen generations”, why is that significant, specifically?


    The footnotes of the Recovery Version could help you. The study notes of the Recovery Version Bible are taken from his voluminous messages of his Life Study of the whole Bible.

    Scofield incorporated the notes of J.N. Darby in the famous Scofield Bible. From time to time Bibles come out with study notes dedicated to a few or a specific teacher.

    If you're really interested go look up the online Recovery Version and see what Witness Lee had for notes there.
    I don't feel much like writing it just so you can ridicule them this morning.

    I don't think a really major concept will be MISSED if a Bible reader doesn't want to consider numbers as sometimes symbolic.
    I got a lot out of the Bible for a couple of years with no special attention given to numbers.
  8. Joined
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    09 May '19 12:212 edits
    @sonship said
    @divegeester
    The problem I have with the excessive of numerology in the Bible is that most of the assumptions and declarations that people draw from it are complete nonsense.


    The thread is on "The Wisdom of WItness Lee".
    I would not say Lee's treatment of the numbers is "excessive".
    I think it is measured.
    And I think whatever point he makes by ref from learning something from Witness Lee's measured and balanced reference to numbers in the Bible.
    I’ll take that as meaning you have no idea whatsoever.

    Which in fact demonstrates my point.
  9. R
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    09 May '19 13:093 edits
    @divegeester

    I’ll take that as meaning you have no idea whatsoever.

    Which in fact demonstrates my point.


    "Thou Shalt Know What EVERY footnote says by Witness Lee" is now the 11th commandment?

    Suppose I DID have to review it to see what might be there? SO WHAT ?
    Besides I did give you a little something - 42 stations before the Israelites came to enter the Promise Land. This is similar to 42 generations before God With US- the incarnation of Christ took place.

    Go study more if you want more.
  10. The Ghost Chamber
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    09 May '19 14:20
    @sonship

    Anyway, back to the pertinent quote in the thread:

    'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'
  11. R
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    09 May '19 14:562 edits
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'


    A guy never loved a sentence so much.

    Let's talk about it.
    Are you up to talking about your favorite paragraph there ?
    Are you going to stick with me if we do ?
  12. R
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    09 May '19 15:131 edit
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    Anyway, back to the pertinent quote in the thread:


    Do you want to discuss it or just keep bringing it up?
  13. PenTesting
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    09 May '19 15:221 edit
    @sonship said
    @Ghost-of-a-Duke

    Anyway, back to the pertinent quote in the thread:


    Do you want to discuss it or just keep bringing it up?
    Did you address the reasons your religion thinks that the other Christians are organisations of Satan?
  14. The Ghost Chamber
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    09 May '19 15:26
    @rajk999 said
    Did you address the reasons your religion thinks that the other Christians are organisations of Satan?
    I think he's building up to it.
  15. PenTesting
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    09 May '19 15:27
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    I think he's building up to it.
    I think he is hoping it would go away.
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