The Wisdom of Witness Lee

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Anyway, back to the pertinent quote in the thread:

Do you want to discuss it or just keep bringing it up?

Do you want to discuss it?! (And I don't just mean spamming the thread with cut and pastes).

Is the Christian next door an agent of Satan who will burn in hell for all eternity? (As warned in Revelations).

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

We are going to discuss your offending paragraph wise guy. You and me.
I reserve the right to, if I need to, quote or paste in something.
I reserve the right to examine the whole concept in light of the Bible.

Now if you want to jury rig our talk so that you turn off if I do either, let me know now.

Otherwise, you and me, let's get into your bomb shell paragraph.
And I don't expect you to let another poster throw us off course with his off the wall comment to give you excuse to let me chase some passing comment, distracting from OUR exchange.

First, let me ask you this.
Is it your impression that the Devil, Satan, in the Bible, can only do like what we would normally call - "evil" things ?

In other words, when you hear of Satan being involved in something, do you ONLY think of bad, wicked, evil, things ?
Can Satan be involved in something which has a veneer of "good" to it ?

Come on Ghost,

Does Satan's subtlety include deception by being involved in things not apparently "bad" or "wicked" or "worthy of hell fire" but something SEEMINGLY good, upstanding, cultured, held in esteem by men ?

I am not expecting you to totally agree with me. But you are going to see what kind of thinking is behind your bamb shell offensive paragraph which you like to keep smacking me with.

Come on now. Can Satan do or encourage on the surface "good things" too ??

@Rajk999

He doesn't need you Rajk999. You're an embarrassment to Christians here.
Just step aside cause all you can do is poison the well of discussion like a schoolyard punk adept at calling names.

Who wants to talk to you?
Go flatter some atheists that you are cool too.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

He doesn't need you Rajk999. You're an embarrassment to Christians here.
Just step aside cause all you can do is poison the well of discussion like a schoolyard punk adept at calling names.

Who wants to talk to you?
Go flatter some atheists that you are cool too.

I agree that I am an embarrassment to Christians and I wear that badge with pride and honour. I poison your well with the truth. Non-Christians can read, they can understand and they can see through your false doctrines.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Is the Christian next door an agent of Satan who will burn in hell for all eternity? (As warned in Revelations).

Your concept of Satan's activity is inadequate.

I am asking you - In the Bible can Satan's subtly cause him to DECEIVE by means of something at least surface wise "good" ?

I know the "Satan" - "hell fire" association is useful for you to RIDE so as to make your bomb shell paragraph have maximum revulsion to readers.

Jesus called His own leading disciple once - "Satan". ALL PETER DID was suggest that Jesus feel sorry for Himself and not go to the execution of the cross! That was a good thing. RIGHT ??

To keep Jesus alive, to keep Jesus WITH US, to keep keep Jesus from being killed ... wasn't that a GOOD THING ??
How come it won Peter the scalding rebuke of "Get behind Me Satan ..." .

Was Jesus telling Peter he was at the very gate of going to the lake of fire then ?

Ghost, Can SATAN's subtlety involve his activity in something seemingly GOOD ??

@Rajk999

I agree that I am an embarrassment to Christians and I wear that badge with pride and honour. I poison your well with the truth. Non-Christians can read, they can understand and they can see through your false doctrines.

Shut up.
I gave you YEARS to prove false teaching from me.
You haven't been able to do it.

You just call me names.

So take your "badge of honor" and go be cool with the atheists who hate the faith. Flatter them to see if they'll by that join your one man cult.

Ceasar salad, Sorry guy, that you have to read stuff like this here.

Pay attention to my civil discourse with Ghost, if he follows on to talk to me.
I'll be polite.

@sonship said
Ceasar salad, Sorry guy, that you have to read stuff like this here.

Pay attention to my civil discourse with Ghost, if he follows on to talk to me.
I'll be polite.

Your civil discourse with Ghost is is making you look like a fool. Ghost has sweet words that condemn your cult and the cult leaders. Even atheists can see that your doctrine is unbiblical garbage

You see Ghost? Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

Come on.
You've been taunting me with the bombshell again and again.
Let's kick it around then.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

I agree that I am an embarrassment to Christians and I wear that badge with pride and honour. I poison your well with the truth. Non-Christians can read, they can understand and they can see through your false doctrines.

Shut up.
I gave you YEARS to prove false teaching from me.
You haven't been able to do it.

You just call me names.
...[text shortened]... ith the atheists who hate the faith. Flatter them to see if they'll by that join your one man cult.

I gave you a very simple one in 1 Cor 3.

Paul identified 3 groups of Christians
1. The righteous - Saved and rewarded
2. The mediocre - Saved and not rewarded
3. The evil - Destroyed

Any 10 yr old can read and understand that passage, that says clearly that there is a group of sinful Christians that God will destroy. You and your church has twisted it and changed its meaning. In fact your church has rewritten in the Bible. Any time a church as to resort to doing that, then they are a cult, lost in false doctrines.

@sonship said
Come on Ghost,

Does Satan's subtlety include deception by being involved in things not apparently "bad" or "wicked" or "worthy of hell fire" but something SEEMINGLY good, upstanding, cultured, held in esteem by men ?

I am not expecting you to totally agree with me. But you are going to see what kind of thinking is behind your bamb shell offensive paragraph whic ...[text shortened]... king me with.

Come on now. Can Satan do or encourage on the surface "good things" too ??

Leaving multiple posts, directed at me, when I am not logged into the site is a tired tactic from you. How is that any different than spamming a conversation to derail genuine dialogue? Do you lack any semblance of patience?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

We are going to discuss your offending paragraph wise guy. You and me.
I reserve the right to, if I need to, quote or paste in something.
I reserve the right to examine the whole concept in light of the Bible.

Now if you want to jury rig our talk so that you turn off if I do either, let me know now.

Otherwise, you and me, let's get into your bom ...[text shortened]... d, wicked, evil, things ?
Can Satan be involved in something which has a veneer of "good" to it ?

Okay. Firstly it is a sentence, not a paragraph. Here it is again in all its glory:

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

Secondly, I reserve the right to ignore anything you post that comes from an external source. I am only interested in 'your' understanding of the offending sentence.

Thirdly, if your new approach is to argue that being an organization of Satan isn't necessarily a bad thing then I strongly urge you to reconsider your position.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Okay. Firstly it is a sentence, not a paragraph. Here it is again in all its glory:

My reply - Since we first had this as a Forum topic you have revisited a number of times the PARAGRAPH. I dare say more times you reminded the forum of the PARAGRAPH and not just a single sentence.

So I referred to the paragraph. And discussion of it without discussion of CONTEXT I would find inadequate.

Ghost,

LIke Jesus said that destroy the temple and in three days He would raise it up. That got skewed to "He SAID that He would destroy the temple and raise it up in three days."

Accusations, need to be considered carefully in their wording and in their context.

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

Interesting though, REPEATEDLY I asked you to consider the parable Jesus spoke about the corrupting LEAVEN added to three measure of meal by a woman. And Jesus said the ENTIRE, ... the ENTIRE lump became leavened. (Matthew 13:33)

My request for YOUR TAKE on what Jesus meant by that as a teaching concerning His kingdom of the heavens was met with crickets chirping late into the midnight. You wouldn't TOUCH it, as I remember.

Well in brief, Witness Lee was not the first or will not be the last to see in that parable an explanation - Jesus Christ came to sow something which got corrupted in its entirety by a long gradual process of MIXTURE with a bloating element. A fermentation process which changed the whole nature into something CONTRARY to what Jesus came to establish.

So we take THAT into consideration in speaking of how the ISMs (not the Christians themselves) but the ISMs of Organized Religion have SO transmuted the nature of what Jesus came to establish that it nearly completely destroyed it. And this is of the SUBTLETY of God's enemy.

IF you have an alternative interpretation of the LEAVEN mixed with FLOUR from the women until the WHOLE LUMP was turned to LEAVEN, then please present your alternative way of interpretation.

Shrug and "Well , I don't care because, you see, I am an atheist" is a playing card at your disposal. But it doesn't terribly render your criticism of Witness Lee's comment stronger. It would be an "Argument by Apathy" I think.

Now, DO YOU SEE, in Scripture, that God's enemy, Satan, can sometimes wreck and oppose God by means of doing something with the APPEARANCE of good to it ?

Yes, you can?
No, you cannot?

Secondly, I reserve the right to ignore anything you post that comes from an external source. I am only interested in 'your' understanding of the offending sentence.

Thirdly, if your new approach is to argue that being an organization of Satan isn't necessarily a bad thing then I strongly urge you to reconsider your position.