1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNot in the Eastern mountains. (Well, not these days, anyway.) You might have to worry a little about the black bears and the wild boars, though.
mountain lions?
EDIT: Besides, my ancestors (the hillbillies) called them catamounts or "painters," not mountain lions.
5 edits
Originally posted by wolfgang59No, not easy to produce, merely of no practical value. It exists solely for the minds
you seemed to be deriding some art because it was easy to produce.
I stopped going to degree shows for this very reason, pick any
single person from the street and they can produce similar 'art'.
but I'm glad to hear you don't subscribe to that.
I dont understand what you have against elitist art? There will always be books that are only ...[text shortened]... up $50,000 for a giant black phallus) but that does not mean I disapprove of the art itself.
of those who created it and to those who are initiated into its mysteries.
Here in Scotland there is a painter, Jack Vettriano, a self taught artist of mediocre
talent, who paints romantic images. He is frowned upon by the art establishment,
yet ironically the public love him and he sells paintings and prints by the lorry load,
why? simply because people can relate in some way his images. If one of his
buyers was to be asked, would you prefer a Jackson Pollok, they would look at them
in disbelief as if they had lost their mind. What are we observing here but the very
thing Ming was referring to, alienation. The people are uninitiated into the
mysteries of abstract art, its meaningless to them, it serves no function for them.
By way of contrast if one were to visit a village in the Punjab, one can see art in
every day use, the womens hands are painted with intricate designs with henna,
their clothes are artistically designed and adorned with mirrors and embroidery, the
buses and trams, lorries and taxis have idyllic images which adorn every inch, art is
functional, its part of life and serves to attempt to elevate one from the mundane.
Is this really the case in the West, what function does abstract expressionism serve
to those who are uninitiated into its mysteries? A vehicle for their imagination, well
gee thanks, daydreaming does the same thing.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell here in America, they have cut school programs to the bone and they will by god have a football team but art? Who needs that fag crap anyway? Music? More Fags.
no it would be art, what it wouldn't be was purely conceptual art.
Even the Mona Lisa has some intellectual substance to it, the deliberate rounding of
the corner's of the eyes and the mouth to give her an ambiguous quality, intentional
and deliberate, but Da Vinci could paint the hind legs off a donkey. The Mona Lisa
speaks to everyone o ...[text shortened]... ocieties we find that its almost functional,
accessible, part of life, not detached from it.
That is the gist of the American school system as a whole, or as a hole, take your pick.
Of course there will be counter examples but the examples way overwhelm the counter ones. For every school that has an art program there are 1000 that don't.
It takes education to be able to cross the alienation border. If kids all get entertainment instead of actual education, who loses? We all do.
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhousewhy do you need to be educated to enjoy art, is the illiterate Punjabi unable to enjoy
Well here in America, they have cut school programs to the bone and they will by god have a football team but art? Who needs that fag crap anyway? Music? More Fags.
That is the gist of the American school system as a whole, or as a hole, take your pick.
Of course there will be counter examples but the examples way overwhelm the counter ones. For ever nation border. If kids all get entertainment instead of actual education, who loses? We all do.
art because of his illiteracy? i think not. Its the very point Ming the merciless was
making, have we become so alienated that we now need to be educated to enjoy it.
The whole education system needs an overhaul, its based on a Greek model three
thousand years old. If they taught the kids things they were interested in learning,
they would want to learn, which is half the battle.
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAppreciation of art is based on experience. how else would you justify a cultures preference for its own music, art, folklore etc.
why do you need to be educated to enjoy art, is the illiterate Punjabi unable to enjoy
art because of his illiteracy? i think not. Its the very point Ming the merciless was
making, have we become so alienated that we now need to be educated to enjoy it.
The whole education system needs an overhaul, its based on a Greek model three
thousa ...[text shortened]... s things they were interested in learning,
they would want to learn, which is half the battle.
A good practical example 1
I enjoy dancing and in particular salsa. When I took this up I didnt understand salsa music (hated it) but played it purely to dance to. After years of listening to the music I can now appreciate it and actually play it for listening pleasure and not just to dance to. I have been educated!
A good practical example 2
I have given ICT lessons inspired by Andy Warhol prints. The process of preparing those lessons and copying his style led me to greater appreciation of Pop Art.
familiarity I feel, does not necessarily breed contempt!
PS I love Jack Vettriano. Used to have a big print of his of two tango dancers!
Originally posted by wolfgang59PS I love Jack Vettriano. Used to have a big print of his of two tango dancers!
Appreciation of art is based on experience. how else would you justify a cultures preference for its own music, art, folklore etc.
[b]A good practical example 1
I enjoy dancing and in particular salsa. When I took this up I didnt understand salsa music (hated it) but played it purely to dance to. After years of listening to the music I can now app ...[text shortened]... d contempt!
PS I love Jack Vettriano. Used to have a big print of his of two tango dancers![/b]
Sigh, I despair, try as i can, i find nothing in his work which i can grasp, its intellectually
bereft (not that i claim to be a intellectual, but something is better than nothing). Can i
ask you, in all sincerity what appeals to you about his work? I have asked other
people and they could not explain it, they just said they liked it.
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseThis is why we should vote the democrates out of power and abolish the
Well here in America, they have cut school programs to the bone and they will by god have a football team but art? Who needs that fag crap anyway? Music? More Fags.
That is the gist of the American school system as a whole, or as a hole, take your pick.
Of course there will be counter examples but the examples way overwhelm the counter ones. For ever nation border. If kids all get entertainment instead of actual education, who loses? We all do.
Department of Education and give the money and control back to local
government. The Department of Education have been claiming for many
years, as you should well know, that they just needed more money to
throw at the problem of education and during all this time of taking
more and more of our money and wasting it, the public education system
has been going down the crapper. If it wasn't for private education, no
telling where our education level would be.
P.S. On second thought, maybe we should just get government out of it
altogether.
Originally posted by googlefudgeOK, let's try this: art is a symbolic mode of representation that is removed from direct experience. It is a contemplation of direct experience which leads to a mediated existence. The more representational our mode of thought becomes, the less direct all our experience becomes. We are no longer doing things, but are contemplating representations of the things we used to be doing. Art is a simulacrum that stands in for direct experience and acts to alienate us from it. Our language, use of numbers and our concept of time all serve to remove us from a direct and unmediated experience of the world.
total bs.
un-backed-up assertions of fact with no evidence or reasoning.
try again.
Primal man, who lacked all these types of symbolic thought, had a direct and visceral experience of reality. Modern man, with his many and mutually overlapping modes of symbolic thought, is hopelessly removed and alienated from any direct experience of reality. Modern man has only an indirect relationship with a distorted image of the world that has passed through the multiple lenses of representation. As a result, modern man is not experiencing the world directly, as it is, but is experiencing the world as though through many panes of distorted glass, which give him only a highly mediated and imperfect perception of reality.
Hope that clears things up.
Originally posted by rwingettwell put
OK, let's try this: art is a symbolic mode of representation that is removed from direct experience. It is a contemplation of direct experience which leads to a mediated existence. The more representational our mode of thought becomes, the less direct all our experience becomes. We are no longer doing things, but are contemplating representations of the thi ...[text shortened]... him only a highly mediated and imperfect perception of reality.
Hope that clears things up.
"Modern man...is hopelessly removed and alienated from any direct experience of reality."
I think this generlization serves us well as a reminder back to where things were more simple, perhaps for the fact that things were percieved more directly,(as you put it). Modern day media,(which in a day gone by would've been letters which took weeks to arrive or word of mouth), is LESS reliable ,imo, than in a simpler time.
Most people are either aware of this directly,(and live life accordingly, in the knowledge that we cant trust everything we hear), or have a nagging sense that something just isn't quite right about the society we find ourselves in. Unfortunately it seems not enough people are waking up to this system of control that we live, (and die), in , and hence society always seems ready for change, ansd shows signs of "progress", all the while raking in the cash and maintaining the basic system,(capitalism), which , imo, is a very sad state of affairs.
I'm inferring a lot here, I know, and perhaps my generalization is only apt for a certain part of soiety,(perhaps the emergence of Europeans and their off shoots).
Originally posted by karoly aczelCapitalism is a happy state of affairs for those raking in the cash.
well put
"Modern man...is hopelessly removed and alienated from any direct experience of reality."
I think this generlization serves us well as a reminder back to where things were more simple, perhaps for the fact that things were percieved more directly,(as you put it). Modern day media,(which in a day gone by would've been letters which took ...[text shortened]... t for a certain part of soiety,(perhaps the emergence of Europeans and their off shoots).
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsModern Day Capitalism is nothing like what you imagine, we only have the illsuion of freedom-either you vote for the guy on the left or the guy on the right. There's only freedom for those who want to continue promoting a lop-sided system,ie. freedom to make money.
Capitalism is a happy state of affairs for those raking in the cash.
The rich get richer ...
In (this verion of) capitalist society will not survive for it will not embrace change, and all civilizations that did not change with the times fell.
Ever seen the stock market lately?
Originally posted by karoly aczelIn my country the Democrats try to put so many restrictions on the
Modern Day Capitalism is nothing like what you imagine, we only have the illsuion of freedom-either you vote for the guy on the left or the guy on the right. There's only freedom for those who want to continue promoting a lop-sided system,ie. freedom to make money.
The rich get richer ...
In (this verion of) capitalist society will not survive fo ...[text shortened]... all civilizations that did not change with the times fell.
Ever seen the stock market lately?
Capitalist process and tax them out of business so that the government
can take over every thing like in socialism and communism. Lucky
we have some in the Republican Party to fight this. The Libertarian
Party is just too small to make much difference. If we could just vote
all those Democrats that love socialism and communism out of office
our economy might be able to recover.
Originally posted by RJHindsLol. Sure thing.
In my country the Democrats try to put so many restrictions on the
Capitalist process and tax them out of business so that the government
can take over every thing like in socialism and communism. Lucky
we have some in the Republican Party to fight this. The Libertarian
Party is just too small to make much difference. If we could just vote
all those Democrats that love socialism and communism out of office
our economy might be able to recover.
The point I was trying to make was that "making money" ,for itself only, is "unevolutionary".
There ya go,have a go at that one mate😉