08 May '08 03:20>
Originally posted by RBHILLAnd they say Christian charity is dead!
40 million maybe? for you guys too. we could add that to your religion.
Originally posted by PsychoPawnInterestingly, Stalin trained in a seminary. So we can chalk his victims up to the religious mindset
So we've established that morality has nothing to do with whether you believe in god or not?
Atheists and those who believe in most likely fictitious omniscient beings can all be evil.
So what's new?
Although, I'd argue that Stalin for the most part did not kill in the name of atheism, although he was a murderous arseface.
Originally posted by PawnChopAh, but Pawnchop, I think you're letting Hitler's own words fool you into thinking that he actually believes what he says he does.
Hitler:
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what ...[text shortened]... Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
Originally posted by LemonJelloAmen and reamen, brother!
How long did it take you to type out this post, RB? A minute? There goes another minute of your life. Gone forever. Go share your faith whale. You still have time!
Originally posted by scottishinnzWhether Hitler believed what he was saying or not doesn't matter. In terms of politics, his style of politics, the classical Machiavellian strain with a modern media infusion, plays to the audience: their susceptibility, not his, is what counts. In terms of religion, it can easily be shown that his speech goes against the grain of Christ's reported teachings. Clearly, though, neither Hitler nor his nominally Christian auditors had much interest in what Christ had to say, preferring to use him as a voodoo doll.
Ah, but Pawnchop, I think you're letting Hitler's own words fool you into thinking that he actually believes what he says he does.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageIndeed. He needed the support of the church, and the church was happy to oblige for the most part because it gave them more power. In some private conversations he showed a quite different view (I'll find some sources for that later if I can be bothered).
Whether Hitler believed what he was saying or not doesn't matter. In terms of politics, his style of politics, the classical Machiavellian strain with a modern media infusion, plays to the audience: their susceptibility, not his, is what counts. In terms of religion, it can easily be shown that his speech goes against the grain of Christ's reported tea ...[text shortened]... auditors had much interest in what Christ had to say, preferring to use him as a voodoo doll.
Originally posted by twhitehead"The more representatives from the reactionary clergy and the recalcitrant bourgeoisie we shoot," Lenin wrote in March of 1922, "the better it will be for us. We must teach these people a lesson as quickly as possible, so that the thought of protesting again doesn't occur to them for decades to come." http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2000/March_2000_4.html
The fact is that Hitler killed Jews 'in the name of Christianity'. Whether he believed what he said is another matter.
RBHill claimed that the Communists he listed killed 'in the name of atheism' yet he has provided no evidence whatsoever for such a claim.
Does anyone have any reference to any speech by an atheist communist leader that supports RBHills claim?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI don't think that supports his claim but rather contradicts his claim. It shows that Lenin was not killing 'in the name of atheism' but as a deterrent to protest action.
"The more representatives from the reactionary clergy and the recalcitrant bourgeoisie we shoot," Lenin wrote in March of 1922, "the better it will be for us. We must teach these people a lesson as quickly as possible, so that the thought of protesting again doesn't occur to them for decades to come." http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2000/March_2000_4.html
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou're nit-picking. Atheism was official Soviet ideology; opposing ideologies were to be rooted out; Christians, Jews and others were eliminated precisely because their ideologies opposed that of the state (and were therefore likely to lead to protest action). I get the feeling you aren't going to be satisfied until someone produces a speech that says "Kill them in the name of atheism!"
I don't think that supports his claim but rather contradicts his claim. It shows that Lenin was not killing 'in the name of atheism' but as a deterrent to protest action.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageLet me demonstrate nit-picking: Atheism was not official Soviet ideology - communism (of which atheism was a part) was official Soviet ideology.
You're nit-picking. Atheism was official Soviet ideology;