There are Atheists that murder people too

Originally posted by Starrman
We're not talking about whether a guy in the past killed some king or something. We're talking about reversing the known laws of biology, accepting that magic exists and that the laws of physics are therefore also nonsense. That's not something I, or anyone, should be prepared to do on 2000 year old writing. History is not empirical, it is opinionated, o ...[text shortened]... the sources of the information untrustworthy, I cannot apply the same historical view to god.

The same holds true for current events. It all depends on the media slant.

Originally posted by dizzyfingers
If it is as you say, that the majority of atheists would be swayed by actual evidence of God (I don't believe it to be the case; it seems we humans are more swayed by our passions than our intellects, which is not necessarily a completely bad thing, IMHO), and you count yourself among that majority, may I suggest a couple of books? If you are sincere, a Abraham Varghese, and
"God's Universe" by Owen Gingerich.

Let me know what you think.

From what I read Flew didn't actually write (nor apparently read, he was apparently quite unaware of lots of its content during interviews) the book. Now that's not to say it's wrong or bad, just a bit intellectually dishonest.

Gingerich's book seems to get quite good reviews.

It seems both largely boil down to cosmological arguements (arguments from incredulity) rather than any serious reasoned points.

I did notice, in the synopsis of I think Gingerich's book signs of an apparent fundamental misunderstanding of the probability theory which underpins Darwinian evolution, however.

[ps. this is not to say I won't read them, but I'll pay for them myself, although thank you for the offer. 🙂]

Originally posted by dizzyfingers
So you're saying there's no way to know if something happened or not?!? You're going to put a lot of historians out of business with your astute mental acuity. WARNING TO ALL HISTORIANS! - STARRMAN IS ABOUT TO PUT YOU ALL OUT OF BUSINESS!
That's OK, they know there's no future in that job anyway 😉

Not what he's saying at all. However, he is saying we have to be aware of potential bias, and occassionally the sheer fact that people lie when writing books. We cannot simply take something for true simply because someone wrote it down a long time ago. A lie does not become true with age.

Originally posted by dizzyfingers
So you're saying there's no way to know if something happened or not?!? You're going to put a lot of historians out of business with your astute mental acuity.

Yes we can never know for sure - even if we have multiple angle video and 5.1 dynamic sound recordings and presidents signatures. We can only look at the evidence and decide for our selves how likely it is that something actually happened in a given way. When I personally look at the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus I find it totally unconvincing. ie I find that it is highly unlikely that it actually took place. Further, I believe that any sane person who takes an impartial look at the evidence would come to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes we can never know for sure - even if we have multiple angle video and 5.1 dynamic sound recordings and presidents signatures. We can only look at the evidence and decide for our selves how likely it is that something actually happened in a given way. When I personally look at the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus I find it totally unconvincing. i ...[text shortened]... t any sane person who takes an impartial look at the evidence would come to the same conclusion.

Good point. Of course, I am taking a balance of evidence position in my post, but you are taking an absolute knowledge position.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Good point. Of course, I am taking a balance of evidence position in my post, but you are taking an absolute knowledge position.

dizzyfingers clearly thinks that the resurrection of Jesus is a well documented historical event. He is clearly misinformed or deliberately attempting to misinform.

Originally posted by twhitehead
dizzyfingers clearly thinks that the resurrection of Jesus is a well documented historical event. He is clearly misinformed or deliberately attempting to misinform.

Nope, just saying there is compelling evidence for it, smart guy 😏

Originally posted by dizzyfingers
Nope, just saying there is compelling evidence for it, smart guy 😏

Well present some and I will demonstrate why I think you are misinformed. I have heard such claims before but when actually asked for evidence people have a tendency of either lying or disappearing.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well present some and I will demonstrate why I think you are misinformed. I have heard such claims before but when actually asked for evidence people have a tendency of either lying or disappearing.

ah, your patience shall be rewarded ... keep your eyes peeled for the Resurrection of Jesus thread.