Originally posted by twhitehead Let me demonstrate nit-picking: Atheism was [b]not official Soviet ideology - communism (of which atheism was a part) was official Soviet ideology. .[/b]
No, if I said atheism was the official ideology, you'd be correct.
But from a nit-picking point of view, you're correct: atheism is not a name, so nothing can be killed in it's name. Unlike the State. But language isn't RBHill's strongest point. Then again, the thread title is "there are atheists who murder people too", which is indisputable.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage No, if I said atheism was the official ideology, you'd be correct.
Yes you are correct. But your post continued with "opposing ideologies were to be rooted out" which implied those that opposed Atheism specifically which is not necessarily true (though it might be in some cases), as it was more a case of those opposing the whole set of state ideologies including communism and atheism and others.
But from a nit-picking point of view, you're correct: atheism is not a name, so nothing can be killed in it's name. But we can allow some leeway on that. For example if someone said that his atheism had lead him to the conclusion that he should kill someone or even if someone killed with the stated purpose of furthering the cause of atheism then I would accept it as 'killing in the name of atheism', though in the second case the atheism in question would be a specific atheistic ideology that would not he held by all atheists.
Then again, the thread title is "there are atheists who murder people too", which is indisputable. I do not dispute the title at all. But RBHill appears to have been attempting to incorrectly conclude that all atheists that commit murder do so 'in the name of atheism' which is clearly false. He hasn't even shown that they committed murder because they were atheist.
He also lists casualties in war as 'murder' which is incorrect.
Originally posted by twhitehead I do not dispute the title at all. But RBHill appears to have been attempting to incorrectly conclude that all atheists that commit murder do so 'in the name of atheism' which is clearly false. He hasn't even shown that they committed murder because they were atheist.
He also lists casualties in war as 'murder' which is incorrect.
Yes, this sort of argument never succeeds, whether the target is Christians, atheists, Americans, liberals, or what have you. What amuses me is that people use it to denigrate some group they despise but take offence when it's used against them.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage Yes, this sort of argument never succeeds, whether the target is Christians, atheists, Americans, liberals, or what have you. What amuses me is that people use it to denigrate some group they despise but take offence when it's used against them.
I would not claim that because a Christian commits murder or kills someone then it is because of his faith, but it cannot be denied either that a significant number of people have killed 'in the name of' their beliefs.
Hitlers speech has him saying 'as a Christian' ...
I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone saying "as an Atheist I feel compelled to kill....." or something to that effect.
I do not think that religion should be blamed for all the horrors perpetrated in the name of religion but I do think that religious people should take note and be wary of the fact that leaders often take advantage of peoples tendency not to criticize a leader that plays the religion card, and when people are not critical enough of their leaders they may be partially guilty of the offenses committed.
I suspect that patriotism and antisemitism played bigger parts than religion in the support Hitler got.
Originally posted by scottishinnz No, those people were murdered because the regimes were headed by megalomaniacs, not because they were atheists.
You, RB, are a prime example of why abortion is a good thing.
See no one is perfect taht is why you need Jesus to save you from the wrath of God. And I see you are being a little prideful right now from your comment.
Originally posted by RBHILL See no one is perfect taht is why you need Jesus to save you from the wrath of God. And I see you are being a little prideful right now from your comment.
Yes, who better to fear than the original, high-volume serial killer himself, father God in heaven!
Originally posted by RBHILL See no one is perfect taht is why you need Jesus to save you from the wrath of God. And I see you are being a little prideful right now from your comment.
Why is your God so wrathful? Sounds like He has major issues.
It amazes me sometimes to read the posts here in this Spirituality Forum. Why don't you folks who call yourselves atheists get honest and call yourselves what you really are - anti-theists. Reading your posts makes it clear many of you just simply hate God and the idea that you will be ultimately accountable to someone besides yourself for the life that you lead. You may be able to expound all sorts of semi-intellectual (read 'half-witted'😉 arguments in defense of your unbelief and carry on a debate better than some believers, but that changes nothing. You can do that for the rest of your lives if you wish, but it will not change your date with death. You will not be able to intelligently argue your way out of dying. When you've overcome death, let me know. Until then, I'll be listening to someone who already has, about 2000 years ago. 🙂 Good day.
Originally posted by RBHILL I only vote Republican.
Yo, I gotta tell you I saw this interview with Cindy McCain this morning and she has got to be the hottest 52 year old woman around. And then I learn that she is worth about $100 million. She was wearin this dress to kind of show off her legs. What more could I want to see and hear?
Originally posted by kirksey957 OK, how does your wife feel about Obama?
i will tell you that my wife is an nonparty person/independent.
In 2004 she voted for Karry. in 2008 she wanted a Republican ticket but Republicans would not allow nonparty people to vote on their ticket. She she voted for Hillary and Cried. she was upset. she wanted to vote for Edwards but he had droped out by then. But this time she wants mcCain.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage You're nit-picking. Atheism was official Soviet ideology; opposing ideologies were to be rooted out; Christians, Jews and others were eliminated precisely because their ideologies opposed that of the state (and were therefore likely to lead to protest action). I get the feeling you aren't going to be satisfied until someone produces a speech that says "Kill them in the name of atheism!"
I think everything but atheism was wiped out because of their threats to the state, not out of any ideological considerations. Power, not theism or atheism was the driving force. In which case, this thread could be more aptly titled "People kill".
Originally posted by RBHILL i will tell you that my wife is an nonparty person/independent.
In 2004 she voted for Karry. in 2008 she wanted a Republican ticket but Republicans would not allow nonparty people to vote on their ticket. She she voted for Hillary and Cried. she was upset. she wanted to vote for Edwards but he had droped out by then. But this time she wants mcCain.
There are Atheists that murder people too
08 May '08 11:331 edit
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