Originally posted by whodey
You are correct in that I was acting smugly and my data was flawed. I freely admit this and further submit that this happens in the scientific community as well. Take, for example, something I was taught in my science class. I was taught that all life on earth was dependent upon the sun. My instructor swore up and down that no life could be sustained with ...[text shortened]... les that we should adhere to. Perhaps I should follow some Biblical advice and do so as well.

It's a good thing that science is maleable enough to take new discoveries and new findings. Shame the bible doesn't have that same flexability, just makes it look unprofessional when we find something it cannot explain....

Originally posted by Nemesio
Well, if [b]anything can be used as proof, then how is it proof anymore? It has no
value or currency. I believe that was Telerion's point. The world around us neither
proves not disproves God's existence, because if the world was different, it wouldn't
change our opinions either way.

Nemesio[/b]

So if the normal has no value as proof, what about the abnormal? Are miracles proof of God?

DF

Originally posted by DragonFriend
So if the normal has no value as proof, what about the abnormal? Are miracles proof of God?

Miracles are things which have no apparent explanation. They could just as easily be
some scientific process we don't yet understand as some Divine entity.

They are certainly not proof that the God of the Judeo-Christians exist. It could be a
Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Miracles are things which have no apparent explanation. They could just as easily be
some scientific process we don't yet understand as some Divine entity.

They are certainly not proof that the God of the Judeo-Christians exist. It could be a
Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Nemesio

One could claim that God performs miracles because it says so in the bible.

Then again, the bible also says that God is a terrorist. See:

www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=35999

Originally posted by STANG
One could claim that God performs miracles because it says so in the bible.

Then again, the bible also says that God is a terrorist. See:

www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=35999

It also says we are created in God's image. Tell me about the terrorist in you. Thank you in advance.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Miracles are things which have no apparent explanation. They could just as easily be
some scientific process we don't yet understand as some Divine entity.

They are certainly not proof that the God of the Judeo-Christians exist. It could be a
Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Nemesio

It could just as easily be God also.

So the problem is that we have no evidence for God.
I suggest the normal everyday stuff, and but that's too common to be evidence.
I suggest to non-normal, but that's simply something we don't understand yet.
That agrument leaves no possiblity of finding God.
No wonder there seems to be no evidence for God, all possible sources have been dismissed.

DF

Originally posted by DragonFriend
It could just as easily be God also.

So the problem is that we have no evidence for God.
I suggest the normal everyday stuff, and but that's too common to be evidence.
I suggest to non-normal, but that's simply something we don't understand yet.
That agrument leaves no possiblity of finding God.
No wonder there seems to be no evidence for God, all possible sources have been dismissed.

DF

Evidence is something that points toward something.

Normal everyday stuff doesn't point at anything special because if we changed
the 'normal' in any manner whatsoever, it wouldn't point anywhere different.

Abnormal stuff (so-called miracles) doesn't point toward any particular thing either,
just points toward our ignorance of the cause of something.

If you want to present something that definitively points to your God, you are invited
to do so. But don't get upset if people observe the flaws in your theory.

Nemesio

Originally posted by scottishinnz
[edit; oh, and point 3 - why DOES matter have to have a beginning? You've never explained that one to me.....][/b]

Where does matter come from? Well lets start on equal footing shall we? We are all star dust, correct? All matter in fact originates from stars which in turn came from the Big Bang. The Big Bang occured about 15 billion years ago. The Big Bang was either triggored by something or an entity of some kind. I think we can both agree up until this point.


As far as matter goes, it is simply energy in a different form than what it originated. This energy is eternal and cannot be created or destroyed. It simply is and always will be. This is problematic because this energy we observe seems to be subject to the four demensions such as height, width, length, and time. Time by its very definition demands a begining. How then could time have a begining in a universe of energy which is eternal? It could only have a begining if time were created. God is a spiritual being. He is not regelated to the material four demensions that we are regelated to. We, unfortunatly, have no way to perceive this existence because it is totally alien to us. The energy used to initiate the Big Bang had always been there. It simply was in a different form that we have no comprehension of and was not regelated by the demension of time previously. Creation explains both the origination of matter and of life which evolutionists have nighmares trying to come to terms with and explain. This is my take on where matter came from. No one has ever told me this and is only a theory of mine. Any one agree?

Now, what do evolutionists say?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Shame the bible doesn't have that same flexability, just makes it look unprofessional when we find something it cannot explain....[/b]

Ask me one question that the Bible cannot explain.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Evidence is something that points toward something.

If you want to present something that definitively points to your God, you are invited
to do so. But don't get upset if people observe the flaws in your theory.

Nemesio

There comes a point when a conclusion must be drawn from the evidence. I could show a skeptic a dozen things that defy the laws of this world as science has defined them. But to a skeptic it would just be somethig science hasn't explained yet. If one isn't willing to allow God to be a possibility, then one will never allow evidence to point them to that conclusion.
I can't make you believe in God, and you won't allow yourself to.
Oh well.

DF

Originally posted by whodey
Ask me one question that the Bible cannot explain.

why does the bible date the world to 10,000 years old, when science has dated the planet (by multiple methods) to 4.5 billion years old.

Originally posted by whodey
Where does matter come from? Well lets start on equal footing shall we? We are all star dust, correct? All matter in fact originates from stars which in turn came from the Big Bang. The Big Bang occured about 15 billion years ago. The Big Bang was either triggored by something or an entity of some kind. I think we can both agree up until this point.
...[text shortened]... er told me this and is only a theory of mine. Any one agree?

Now, what do evolutionists say?

I have said this before and I'll say it again; time is a property of this universe. Before the big bang there was no before. There was no time, It doesn't need a cause. Cause and effect are properties of this universe. Therefore the big bang did not have to be triggered by anything. It just was.

Maybe it was god exploding that caused the big bang? There's another hypothesis for you.

Originally posted by DragonFriend
There comes a point when a conclusion must be drawn from the evidence. I could show a skeptic a dozen things that defy the laws of this world as science has defined them. But to a skeptic it would just be somethig science hasn't explained yet. If one isn't willing to allow God to be a possibility, then one will never allow evidence to point them to that ...[text shortened]... clusion.
I can't make you believe in God, and you won't allow yourself to.
Oh well.

DF

Actually DF, Nemesio is religious. He just seems to wish to search for truth by all the means available to him.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
why does the bible date the world to 10,000 years old, when science has dated the planet (by multiple methods) to 4.5 billion years old.

I wish you would read my posts!!! Now you have gone and done it. Now I sound like you. Just kidding. I did give you a web site eartlier that explained the descepency. If you need me to give it to you again I will be more than glad to. The web site contains a little video that is about an hour long on the six days of creation. Let me know what you think.