Things You'd Rather Die Than Do

Originally posted by FMF
Responsibility for what?

For the responsibility and the consequences of denying Christ.

What else?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Things You'd Rather Die Than Do

1. Complain about and/or blame God for adversities He allows (for testing or discipline) that are ultimately for blessing.

2. Mislead anyone on points of bible doctrine because of my own failure to submit to systematic teaching of His Word.

3.[/b]

"2. Mislead anyone on points of bible doctrine because of my own failure to submit to systematic teaching of His Word."

What if, correctly interpreted, the Bible says not to prefer death to the above?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]What a man says is his bond. It has consequences.

id rather judge people by what they do rather than what they say.

a person may say anything to save the life of their child, but what they say does not change what they really feel or think. it would be ridiculous and petty of a god to hold a person to what they say under duress.[/b]

See, this is the thinking allowing people to "not believe" people when they speak. This is part of what leads to some of the most drawn out and vicious arguments in this forum. People post something and others are loathe to take it at face value. They always ask themselves "is this person lying?" Lying was once considered a sin, and has now dropped down in importance to "an inconvenience". Fortunately, people are held to the truth in courts of law, at least. What they say there has repercussions.

If only more value was placed on what people say, as it was in the days of the Bible. Fortunately, there are still some people who do treat their word as their bond, instead of viewing it as a "get out of jail free" card. "I was only joking", how many times have you heard this online when someone is caught in a lie? It seems few place any social stigma on it anymore. And that is too bad.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I find it beyond "too bad" that what people say and the witness they give or do not give means "nothing" to people these days.

What does the "witness" you give to someone threatening to kill you or your family "mean"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
For the responsibility and the consequences of denying Christ.

What else?

What about the responsibility for the lives of others who might be killed?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
911

You'd consider asking to borrow the mobile phone of the "radicalized terrorist"?

Originally posted by FMF
So you would not save your children's lives by telling a murderer what they wanted to hear?

And just who are you to decide "what a murderer want to hear"? Murderers are sociopaths. It's likely they will kill you or your child regardless of what you say. Too bad people do not stand up for dignity anymore. Threaten someone with a gun and they turn to whimpering jelly. The world is full of pansies.

I'm sorry, but telling me I could save my child's life by telling a murderer "what they wanted to hear" is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by divegeester
"Why does everything have to be so black and white, life or death, in or out absolute?"

If you're a believer in Christ, why the hell not? God Himself thinks in absolute terms: yes or no; family or separated forever.

Harken unto this, everyone. Here is a man who remembers when lying was equal to dishonor.

Originally posted by FMF
You believe you have an obligation to tell the truth to a "radicalized terrorist" threatening you with "brutal death" that supersedes your obligation to protect the lives of your own children and keep them safe from harm?

Is there any price you would not pay ~ with the lives and welfare of those around you ~ for your own personal "salvation"?

This is a total straw man. If you let your family come under the control of a "radicalized terrorist" they are dead already. Do you *really* think ANYthing you say will protect them at that point? Really? It is your failure to protect them that caused them to die, not telling the truth. Get serious.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[I'd rather die than] Renounce my faith in Jesus Christ, even if death would be brutal and administered at the hands of a radicalized terrorist.

Scenario: FMF renounces his faith in Jesus Christ.

Grampy Bobby: "Salvation is executed by God the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ. Some believers grow in grace out of infancy to maturity; others lose their way with confused daily priorities. None lose their salvation. Why? Because it didn't depend on them in the first place. They accepted a gift. Christ's work of propitiation on the cross and spiritual birth are permanent."

Scenario: Grampy Bobby renounces his faith in Jesus Christ.

Grampy Bobby: "[I'd rather die than] Renounce my faith in Jesus Christ, even if death would be brutal and administered at the hands of a radicalized terrorist [...] God Himself thinks in absolute terms: yes or no; family or separated forever.

Why would Grampy Bobby be "separated forever" and yet I would not "lose [my] salvation"?

Unless you can demonstrate some kind of consistency across these two scenarios, people will be forgiven for thinking you just like the sound of your own pronouncements, regardless of their content.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is a total straw man. If you let your family come under the control of a "radicalized terrorist" they are dead already. Do you *really* think ANYthing you say will protect them at that point? Really? It is your failure to protect them that caused them to die, not telling the truth. Get serious.

It's the scenario that Grampy Bobby cited: being threatened by a "radicalized terrorist". I have widened the scenario to not just saving oneself but saving others. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Harken unto this, everyone. Here is a man who remembers when lying was equal to dishonor.

Has Grampy Bobby lied to me by telling me I cannot lose my salvation even though I have renounced my belief in Jesus Christ?

Originally posted by Suzianne
And just who are you to decide "what a murderer want to hear"? Murderers are sociopaths. It's likely they will kill you or your child regardless of what you say. Too bad people do not stand up for dignity anymore. Threaten someone with a gun and they turn to whimpering jelly. The world is full of pansies.

I'm sorry, but telling me I could save my child's life by telling a murderer "what they wanted to hear" is ludicrous.

It's the scenario that Grampy Bobby cited: being threatened by a "radicalized terrorist". He's talking about renouncing his faith in Jesus under threat of murder. You don't have to answer if you can't.

Originally posted by FMF
What does the "witness" you give to someone threatening to kill you or your family "mean"?

That's my point. It means absolutely nothing to them. So why not tell the truth. Why renounce your entire life for another ten seconds of life? Nothing you say or do not say is going to change their actions. You're advocating renouncing everything you stand for on the off chance that this will sway a murderer. That's ridiculous.

Originally posted by FMF
It's the scenario that Grampy Bobby cited: being threatened by a "radicalized terrorist". He's talking about renouncing his faith in Jesus under threat of murder. You don't have to answer if you can't.

I'm sorry I must have missed the question. More likely there wasn't one.