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Originally posted by FMFOh please, stop trying to shift this to him. I'm taking umbrage with what you said. At this point what he said is a side issue.
But he has told me and you and everyone what he believes and has done so explicitly. And it is very different from what you believe. Why are you not confronting him about it and instead using me as a proxy through which to disagree with him?
I realize misdirection is your trademark, but I'm not having any of it today.
Why don't you "confront him with it", if it is such a big deal to you?
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Originally posted by FMFOh, so that's the new question, is it? What happened to the original question? Too boring, even for you, now?
Yes I saw it and have responded. The question remains unanswered though: is Grampy Bobby wrong in his interpretation of this matter?
Edit: Clearly, I'm not going to "confront" him, like a schoolyard bully, over something YOU perceive he said. I'm not quite as eager to "demand an answer" to something someone else thought he said as you are.
Originally posted by SuzianneI do all the time. Why are you trying to brush off such a massive doctrinal disagreement between you and him by trying to make it about me and pretending it is a "side issue"? It surely strikes to the very heart of what the OP poster himself has posted and his OP?
Why don't you "confront him with it", if it is such a big deal to you?
Originally posted by SuzianneOld unanswered question: So Grampy Bobby is wrong in his interpretation of this matter?
Oh, so that's the new question, is it? What happened to the original question? Too boring, even for you, now?
New unanswered question: Is Grampy Bobby wrong in his interpretation of this matter?
Originally posted by FMFNo, that's not happening. Take the wedge you're trying to shove between us and "shove it". A "massive doctrinal disagreement"? So you say. I'm not as clear on what he actually said as you seem to be. I'll wait for him to tell it himself, if you don't mind.
I do all the time. Why are you trying to brush off such a massive doctrinal disagreement between you and him by trying to make it about me and pretending it is a "side issue"? It surely strikes to the very heart of what the OP poster himself has posted and his OP?
So, more misdirection. Good job. Do you really think no one's noticed?
Originally posted by SuzianneIt's not something I "perceived" he said. Grampy Bobby was talking to me and responding to me describing how I came to renounce my faith, and he said:
Clearly, I'm not going to "confront" him, like a schoolyard bully, over something YOU perceive he said. I'm not quite as eager to "demand an answer" to something someone else thought he said as you are.
"Salvation is executed by God the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ. Some believers grow in grace out of infancy to maturity; others lose their way with confused daily priorities. None lose their salvation. Why? Because it didn't depend on them in the first place. They accepted a gift. Christ's work of propitiation on the cross and spiritual birth are permanent."
That's not my perception of what I said, that's what he said verbatim.
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Originally posted by SuzianneNo, that's not happening. Take the wedge you're trying to shove between us and "shove it". A "massive doctrinal disagreement"? So you say.
Who gets "salvation" and who does not according tom Christian doctrine is surely a massive aspect, no? One says that I ~ someone who has renounced my former belief in Christ ~ is saved and that this "salvation" is permanent; the other says that I am not saved. A massive doctrinal disagreement, surely?
I'm not as clear on what he actually said as you seem to be. I'll wait for him to tell it himself, if you don't mind.
He has been explicit, here on this thread a page or two ago. What he claims is a flat contradiction of what you claim.
Originally posted by FMFSurely that's not all he said. Nothing there says one cannot lose their salvation if they renounce Christ as their Savior. Man, you are really focused on driving this nail into him, aren't you?
It's not something I "perceived" he said. Grampy Bobby was talking to me and responding to me describing how I came to renounce my faith, and he said:
[b]"Salvation is executed by God the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ. Some believers grow in grace out of infancy to maturity; others lose their way with confused daily priorities. None lose their ...[text shortened]... th are permanent."
That's not my perception of what I said, that's what he said verbatim.[/b]
I guess the entire conversation that drew me into this is now irrelevant to you, just because you sense some "blood in the water". Sorry, I'm not participating in your witch hunt.
If you're done with the conversation that brought me here, then so am I.
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Originally posted by SuzianneFMF: "What about if you lost your faith? I came to a realization that I don't think the Bible is credible and did not accept the claims made about Jesus by Christians and therefore stopped being one."
Surely that's not all he said. Nothing there says one cannot lose their salvation if they renounce Christ as their Savior. Man, you are really focused on driving this nail into him, aren't you?
Grampy Bobby: "Salvation is executed by God the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ. Some believers grow in grace out of infancy to maturity; others lose their way with confused daily priorities. None lose their salvation. Why? Because it didn't depend on them in the first place. They accepted a gift. Christ's work of propitiation on the cross and spiritual birth are permanent."
