This is Religion

Originally posted by josephw
Too weird!

Heaven and hell are Zoroastrianism concepts?

Then Jesus was a Zoroastrian. That clears everything up.

Too weird? That religions borrow ideas from one another? How exactly is that weird?

Christianity has borrowed a lot of ideas from other religions - you can acknowledge it and try to understand why, or stick you head in the sand. Your choice.

Originally posted by Badwater
Too weird? That religions borrow ideas from one another? How exactly is that weird?

Christianity has borrowed a lot of ideas from other religions - you can acknowledge it and try to understand why, or stick you head in the sand. Your choice.

I think you're wrong.

Whatever similarities that exist do so because Satan counterfeits whatever he can and the end result is the confusion in history.

God's Word the Bible is true. Whatever ideas that may exist in other religions is merely a counterfeit and a corruption of the truth.

The above is not meant as a rebuttal or as an argument. I wonder whether or not we understand what the other is saying.

Originally posted by Badwater
Too weird? That religions borrow ideas from one another? How exactly is that weird?

Christianity has borrowed a lot of ideas from other religions - you can acknowledge it and try to understand why, or stick you head in the sand. Your choice.

"Christianity has borrowed a lot of ideas from other religions-.."

I agree with this statement in as far as those who call themselves Christians adopt beliefs and practices not taught in the Bible.

Mmm Kay....

Originally posted by josephw
I think you're wrong.

Whatever similarities that exist do so because Satan counterfeits whatever he can and the end result is the confusion in history.

God's Word the Bible is true. Whatever ideas that may exist in other religions is merely a counterfeit and a corruption of the truth.

The above is not meant as a rebuttal or as an argument. I wonder whether or not we understand what the other is saying.

I am sure that, as a Christian, you know what baptism is and I suppose that you are baptized.

However this rite of purification was performed during the miscellaneous ceremonies of the initiation in India, and much later an identical rite was established by John the Baptist and it was practiced by his disciples and followers, who were not Christians.
This rite was already quite ancient when the early Christians adopted it, and it was also a part of the earliest Chaldeo-Akkadian religious practice. Baptism was common in ancient Egypt and in the Eleusinian mysteries in the sacred temple lakes.
Today the Mandaeans still follow the baptismal rites of the Chaldean initiates because their religion is based on the concept of the multiplied baptisms -of seven purifications “in the name of the seven planetary rulers”, which by the way are equivalent to the “seven Angels of the Presence” of the Roman Catholic Church. And the Protestant Baptists of our era they merely follow the Nazarean concept that was talking place in Asia Minor.
But baptism is solely a single religious issue that is common, so if you search you will find many.

Therefore, it seems to me that the “…similarities that exist” are not caused “because Satan counterfeits whatever he can” in order to cause “confusion in history”. In my opinion the given interreligious similarities are a fact because the religions are merely human inventions and social products.




No religion😵

Originally posted by josephw
God's Word the Bible is true.

I cannot understand that people actually believe this!!! There are plenty of places in the bible that are proven plain wrong, plenty of places contradict other places, plenty of fables and farie tales and legends. I cannot imagine why people of the 3rd millennium haven't progressed further!

We have had plenty of discussions where christians one after one are silenced, shaken in their beliefs about the unfallacy of the bible.

And now you express your religious belief that everything in the bible is the complete Truth, given by god!

I ask you Joseph: Do you think the whole bible is true to the letter?

Originally posted by josephw
Religion is like when you have a piece of pure white cloth stained with indelible ink, and no matter how hard you try you can't wash it out.

Sin is the stain that cannot be removed by any human effort. All religion is based on human effort to remove the stain of sin.

Only Faith in the shed blood of Christ can remove the stain of sin.

I don't really understand the assumption that human nature is indelibly stained. What are you actually committing us to there? Sure, there may be basic natural tendencies that are deeply infixed in us; and yet at the same time when we stand back and introspect on them and subject them to the filter of our practical identities, we would rather they just weren't so; but at the same time we may not possess the active control to conform them. I don't really understand the move from there to the idea that human nature is indelibly stained. And what is the point in guilt or self-loathing or prostrating yourself before the cosmos over such a thing?

Let's go ahead and suppose for the purpose of discussion that there are aspects of human nature that upon introspection continuously clamor for our reform and yet just seem incorrigible. I don't understand your prescription for this. Your prescription is basically to forgo human effort and instead fixate on some vague idea of healing through magical zombie blood. Is there something more to your prescription here or is that really all you have? Wouldn't a better prescription be to try to understand those things that cling for just exactly what they are, so that we can come to some better understanding for their cessation, or to some better founded acceptance of things we cannot change? This, as I understand it, would be more like a form of dharma practice. This is one reason why I am generally more sympathetic toward the prescription of certain eastern religions (because they often make at least some sense, whereas yours really just doesn't as far as I can tell).

Originally posted by black beetle
I am sure that, as a Christian, you know what baptism is and I suppose that you are baptized.

However this rite of purification was performed during the miscellaneous ceremonies of the initiation in India, and much later an identical rite was established by John the Baptist and it was practiced by his disciples and followers, who were not Christians. ...[text shortened]... ct because the religions are merely human inventions and social products.




No religion😵

History can be confusing. One never really knows where things get started for sure. But that is irrelevant anyway. What is relevant is the truth.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Do you think the 'one baptism' of Ephesians 4 has anything to do with water?

Originally posted by LemonJello
I don't really understand the assumption that human nature is indelibly stained. What are you actually committing us to there? Sure, there may be basic natural tendencies that are deeply infixed in us; and yet at the same time when we stand back and introspect on them and subject them to the filter of our practical identities, we would rather they just ...[text shortened]... often make at least some sense, whereas yours really just doesn't as far as I can tell).

I like your post, you were careful in a touchy area-which is quite understandable.

Anyway what I wanted to add,(or highlight), is that it is through self-effort that we can 'evolve' and we shouldn't rely on other dieties for our 'salvation' Even that word-'salvation' has negative connotations,as does all this talk about sinning,etc.
I would like to propose that we start from the premise that we are a'truly incredible-god-empowered-being-if we- want-to-be'. That we are truly excellent from the start-and we just need to live up to our innate potential.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I cannot understand that people actually believe this!!! There are plenty of places in the bible that are proven plain wrong, plenty of places contradict other places, plenty of fables and farie tales and legends. I cannot imagine why people of the 3rd millennium haven't progressed further!

We have had plenty of discussions where christians one after o ...[text shortened]... e Truth, given by god!

I ask you Joseph: Do you think the whole bible is true to the letter?

"We have had plenty of discussions where christians one after one are silenced, shaken in their beliefs about the unfallacy of the bible."

You must not have been around when I debated several persons who tried to prove that there were contradictions in the Bible. I won.

The Word of God is true to the letter. No mistakes, no errors, no contradictions, no myths, no fables, no lies.

The mistakes, errors, contradictions, myths, fables, and lies are ours.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I like your post, you were careful in a touchy area-which is quite understandable.

Anyway what I wanted to add,(or highlight), is that it is through self-effort that we can 'evolve' and we shouldn't rely on other dieties for our 'salvation' Even that word-'salvation' has negative connotations,as does all this talk about sinning,etc.
I would like to ...[text shortened]... are truly excellent from the start-and we just need to live up to our innate potential.

"I would like to propose that we start from the premise that we are a'truly incredible-god-empowered-being-if we- want-to-be'. That we are truly excellent from the start-and we just need to live up to our innate potential."

What 'innate potential' is that?

Originally posted by josephw
You must not have been around when I debated several persons who tried to prove that there were contradictions in the Bible. I won.

The Word of God is true to the letter. No mistakes, no errors, no contradictions, no myths, no fables, no lies.

The mistakes, errors, contradictions, myths, fables, and lies are ours.

"You must not have been around when I debated several persons who tried to prove that there were contradictions in the Bible. I won."

What thread? How could you 'win' anything when there are so many contradictions in the bible?

"The Word of God is true to the letter. No mistakes, no errors, no contradictions, no myths, no fables, no lies."

Haven't you read your bible? Haven't it been showed over and over again that there are so many contradictions, so many mistakes, in the text itself, in translations, in it's interpretations in the bible so it's amusing that an actual religion is based upon it. The bible is full of nice beduin stories. Isn't the story of Adam and Eve such a good fable?

"The mistakes, errors, contradictions, myths, fables, and lies are ours."

Here can I agree fully. To the letter. The mistakes, errors, contradictions, myths, fables, and lies are yours.

Originally posted by josephw
History can be confusing. One never really knows where things get started for sure. But that is irrelevant anyway. What is relevant is the truth.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, [b]one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Do you think the 'one baptism' of Ephesians 4 has anything to do with water?[/b]

“Truth” is just a notion regarding the accepted for the time being deductions from our personal theory of reality which they match our knowledge as we establish it by means of our six senses and our experiments, therefore the notion “truth” means nothing without the necessary connection. Of course our scientifically and philosophically accepted theories or reality are under constant evaluation, whilst your religious beliefs are understood as “absolute truth” although they are not oriented at reason and reasonableness.

Furthermore, it seems to me that you should think of the concept of baptism as a cluster concept. I mean, there are maybe some quite different activities that go under the name “baptism”, however all of them are related to each other by similarity and analogy -but there is no one single baptism activity which has to be rationally understood as “absolute truth”. This is the reason why I discard the possibility that your religious criterion of “truth” involves the producing of an “absolute truth” that has to be accepted because it is based on the “word of God” (“on the word of your personal God”, that is)
😵

Originally posted by josephw
History can be confusing. One never really knows where things get started for sure. But that is irrelevant anyway. What is relevant is the truth.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, [b]one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Do you think the 'one baptism' of Ephesians 4 has anything to do with water?[/b]

edit: "Do you think the 'one baptism' of Ephesians 4 has anything to do with water?"

There are many other religious projects based on the concept of baptism, and I cannot see way I have to accept that yours is accurate and the other ones are false. Since all the baptism activities fall under religious core beliefs, there is no single activity of baptism that can be rationally backed up -your personal one included.
Therefore, the best one can do, with respect to characterizing the Christian baptism activity as “truth”, is to say that the Christian baptism “applies to any activity that is a systematic and disciplined enterprise aimed at finding out factual/ real products about our world, and has significant empirical involvement”. However, since you cannot prove the former and the latter, I ‘ll leave the water of Ephesians 4 aside😵

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"I would like to propose that we start from the premise that we are a'truly incredible-god-empowered-being-if we- want-to-be'. That we are truly excellent from the start-and we just need to live up to our innate potential."

What 'innate potential' is that?[/b]

I dont know...the potential to be 'God-concious' ,which is unknowable in our current ken of understanding-so dont even ask me. Just get into the Spirit of the comment-or not. Somethings even I cannot explain