04 Dec 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosTrust is relative and I trust no-one completely. On the topic of "the real truth about Jesus" I would be most likely to trust a historian especially a non-religious one. However I am yet to meet anyone who has a definitive answer that I trust.
Who do you trust?
As for knightmeister, he is more likely to tell me what "feels good" or what he wishes to be true than the actual truth. In fact with a little prodding, he would probably admit as such.
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe truth of Jesus is not to be found in a history book , he said "when he the spirit of truth comes he will guide you in all truth" , this means if there is any truth in Jesus then it will be found on the ground of your very being in the deepest recesses of your heart , where his spirit of love meets your humanity and vulnerability.
Trust is relative and I trust no-one completely. On the topic of "the real truth about Jesus" I would be most likely to trust a historian especially a non-religious one. However I am yet to meet anyone who has a definitive answer that I trust.
As for knightmeister, he is more likely to tell me what "feels good" or what he wishes to be true than the actual truth. In fact with a little prodding, he would probably admit as such.
So are you interested in seeking out a Jesus that makes you feel bad and doesn't empower you in love , forgiveness and acceptance? What good would such a Jesus be?
BTW- Just watch the darn thing if you want to...it's not radioactive!
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou make the gross mistake of assuming that all versions of Jesus that differ from your own are "bad." A Jesus who was fully human, and not vested with "miraculous" powers, might still be perfectly capable of empowering us in love, forgiveness, and acceptance. Gandhi did that and he was just a man.
The truth of Jesus is not to be found in a history book , he said "when he the spirit of truth comes he will guide you in all truth" , this means if there is any truth in Jesus then it will be found on the ground of your very being in the deepest recesses of your heart , where his spirit of love meets your humanity and vulnerability.
So are you i ...[text shortened]... d such a Jesus be?
BTW- Just watch the darn thing if you want to...it's not radioactive!
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterAnd you know that from where? A history book surely? Or were Jesus' words revealed to you in a dream?
The truth of Jesus is not to be found in a history book , he said "when he the spirit of truth comes he will guide you in all truth" ,
this means if there is any truth in Jesus
Are we talking about "the truth about Jesus" or "Truth in Jesus". You are talking about truth and yet you have already changed the entire meaning of your initial statement.
then it will be found on the ground of your very being in the deepest recesses of your heart , where his spirit of love meets your humanity and vulnerability.
Then why are you directing me to youtube?
So are you interested in seeking out a Jesus that makes you feel bad and doesn't empower you in love, forgiveness and acceptance?
I am interested in knowing the truth about Jesus whatever that truth may be rather than what you want it to be.
What good would such a Jesus be?
Essentially an admission that my earlier statement was accurate: ie you are not interested in the truth but in what you want the truth to be.
BTW- Just watch the darn thing if you want to...it's not radioactive!
My computer does not have sound, so there would be no point.
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadAnd you know that from where? A history book surely? Or were Jesus' words revealed to you in a dream? ----whitey--------
And you know that from where? A history book surely? Or were Jesus' words revealed to you in a dream?
[b]this means if there is any truth in Jesus
Are we talking about "the truth about Jesus" or "Truth in Jesus". You are talking about truth and yet you have already changed the entire meaning of your initial statement.
then it will be found o ...[text shortened]... ..it's not radioactive!
My computer does not have sound, so there would be no point.[/b]
No Jesus' words are in the NT and he specifically said that the Spirit would guide us into truth. If you want to know God you can go to a book store or a pastor or the internet etc etc ....but the best place to go is the main man himself.
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadMy computer does not have sound, so there would be no point.-whitey------
And you know that from where? A history book surely? Or were Jesus' words revealed to you in a dream?
[b]this means if there is any truth in Jesus
Are we talking about "the truth about Jesus" or "Truth in Jesus". You are talking about truth and yet you have already changed the entire meaning of your initial statement.
then it will be found o ...[text shortened]... ..it's not radioactive!
My computer does not have sound, so there would be no point.[/b]
You expect me to believe this? i thought you said you were a computer programmer. Most IT guys I know don't just have speakers they have the full kit. Anyway , if you have an mp3 player you can record from utube and download it to listen.
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadEssentially an admission that my earlier statement was accurate: ie you are not interested in the truth but in what you want the truth to be.---whitey=======
And you know that from where? A history book surely? Or were Jesus' words revealed to you in a dream?
[b]this means if there is any truth in Jesus
Are we talking about "the truth about Jesus" or "Truth in Jesus". You are talking about truth and yet you have already changed the entire meaning of your initial statement.
then it will be found o ...[text shortened]... ..it's not radioactive!
My computer does not have sound, so there would be no point.[/b]
Make no mistake , although accepting the unconditional love of Jesus may sound all goooey it's actually really really hard to do properly.
But , there is a link between truth being good for you and truth itself. Truth for me needs to be functional and have the ability to be lived. A Jesus who can't empower and fill us with love is a dead Jesus and not functional. Maybe for you truth is some abstract concept?
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadThen why are you directing me to youtube?---whitey----
And you know that from where? A history book surely? Or were Jesus' words revealed to you in a dream?
[b]this means if there is any truth in Jesus
Are we talking about "the truth about Jesus" or "Truth in Jesus". You are talking about truth and yet you have already changed the entire meaning of your initial statement.
then it will be found o ...[text shortened]... ..it's not radioactive!
My computer does not have sound, so there would be no point.[/b]
Because the speaker may help you get in touch with this.
04 Dec 07
Originally posted by rwingettBut how do men's hearts become changed from hatred to love? What power makes this happen? Ghandi may influence us but the power comes from within our spirits where Ghandi cannot be and Jesus said he would be. We may be moved by Ghandi metaphorically but is it Ghandi that is actually literally doing the moving? Or is something else happening? Change comes from within not from the outside, But what if something outside of us could get inside us?
You make the gross mistake of assuming that all versions of Jesus that differ from your own are "bad." A Jesus who was fully human, and not vested with "miraculous" powers, might still be perfectly capable of empowering us in love, forgiveness, and acceptance. Gandhi did that and he was just a man.
This is not to knock Ghandi , he's a hero of mine.
05 Dec 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterGandhi motivated people to change themselves. Gandhi doesn't do the moving. He inspires us to move. I don't think Jesus' powers were any greater than Gandhi's.
But how do men's hearts become changed from hatred to love? What power makes this happen? Ghandi may influence us but the power comes from within our spirits where Ghandi cannot be and Jesus said he would be. We may be moved by Ghandi metaphorically but is it Ghandi that is actually literally doing the moving? Or is something else happening? Change co ...[text shortened]... outside of us could get inside us?
This is not to knock Ghandi , he's a hero of mine.
For me, if you humanize Jesus and de-mythologize him, then the story becomes much more amazing. But if you give him super powers, then it becomes nothing more than a magic trick.
05 Dec 07
Originally posted by rwingettGandhi motivated people to change themselves. Gandhi doesn't do the moving. He inspires us to move.---ringwett--
Gandhi motivated people to change themselves. Gandhi doesn't do the moving. He inspires us to move. I don't think Jesus' powers were any greater than Gandhi's.
For me, if you humanize Jesus and de-mythologize him, then the story becomes much more amazing. But if you give him super powers, then it becomes nothing more than a magic trick.
in·spire (n-spr)
v. in·spired, in·spir·ing, in·spires
v.tr.
1. To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
Exactly , Ghandi works (consciously or otherwise) in conjunction with the Spirit. We become in- spired (or in spirited) . Ever wondered how this happens?