Thought Crimes

Originally posted by Suzianne
Why should you be the only one insulting others for what they believe?

You would do well to stand up for what you believe about this horrible sleight on the nature of our God, instead of joining every thread and looking to slap someone you don't like.

Originally posted by 667joe
Can god punish his minions merely for certain thoughts? If so, as per Christopher Hitchens, this is worse than the North Korean dictatorship!

Our thought life generally takes place before our actions due, so if we are dwelling upon
actions that are evil and it fills us that would be the root of evil before it was acted upon.
So yes, your thought life is as much a part of you the things you do.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Our thought life generally takes place before our actions due, so if we are dwelling upon
actions that are evil and it fills us that would be the root of evil before it was acted upon.
So yes, your thought life is as much a part of you the things you do.

So you are saying that God punishes for having the wrong thoughts?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Our thought life generally takes place before our actions due, so if we are dwelling upon
actions that are evil and it fills us that would be the root of evil before it was acted upon.
So yes, your thought life is as much a part of you the things you do.

Do you think that not believing the things that Christians claim about Jesus is "evil"?

Originally posted by divegeester
So you are saying that God punishes for having the wrong thoughts?

If God punishes at all and punishes because you are a 'bad person' then I see no reason whatsoever why bad thoughts should not be just as punishable as bad actions.
Even human law recognizes that attempted murder is nearly as bad as actual murder. Surely intended murder is too?

The biggest problem I have with the whole 'God punishes' claim is that many theists believe that the punishment is a necessary action that serves no purpose but is merely a requirement of 'justice'.

Originally posted by twhitehead
If God punishes at all and punishes because you are a 'bad person' then I see no reason whatsoever why bad thoughts should not be just as punishable as bad actions.
Even human law recognizes that attempted murder is nearly as bad as actual murder. Surely intended murder is too?

No, and the example that you use proves the point.

Attempted murder is an action, a thing you DO [albeit unsuccessfully].

Merely thinking about committing a crime doesn't hurt anyone else and may [depending on circumstance]
even be psychologically healthy. Where you have a moral issue is when you try to act on those thoughts.

Now whether an action is moral or not can in part depend on your thoughts/intentions in performing that
act. If you believe that you can help someone out by pouring hot water on their frozen car window to help
speed up the de-icing and the window shatters then that act was not immoral [if somewhat ignorant and stupid].
However if you do the same act knowing that the window will likely shatter and intend that result then that
act is immoral, and appropriate repercussions should follow.
Merely thinking about pouring hot water on the windscreen of someone you don't like but never intending to or
actually carrying it out [or encouraging others to do so] is amoral. It has no moral component because no other
entity is effected.

Originally posted by googlefudge
No, and the example that you use proves the point.

Attempted murder is an action, a thing you DO [albeit unsuccessfully].

Merely thinking about committing a crime doesn't hurt anyone else and may [depending on circumstance]
even be psychologically healthy. Where you have a moral issue is when you try to act on those thoughts.

Actually you have failed to give any valid reasoning for distinguishing between an action and a thought. You attempted to justify it by saying that thoughts don't hurt anyone, but neither do failed actions.

I suspect you are confusing actual intent to commit murder and thinking 'what if I murdered that person', or even thinking 'that was a nice book about murder'. I am saying that actual intent to commit murder even without action is indistinguishable morally from intent to commit murder with actions. The only reason we do not punish the former is our lack of a 'pre-crime' program or other reliable thought reading mechanism.

Merely thinking about pouring hot water on the windscreen of someone you don't like but never intending to or
actually carrying it out [or encouraging others to do so] is amoral. It has no moral component because no other
entity is effected.
And for that reason I am not saying that merely thinking about doing something without intent is a crime. But that does not rule out the possibility that merely thinking about doing it with the actual intent to do it, should be considered equivalent to doing it.

Originally posted by 667joe
Can god punish his minions merely for certain thoughts? If so, as per Christopher Hitchens, this is worse than the North Korean dictatorship!

Thinking is a sin only a selected few can claim to be guilty of.

Originally posted by Metacomedian
Thinking is a sin only a selected few can claim to be guilty of.

If you think about it 🙂 thinking is just as much a part of you as any other part that makes
you who you are. People identify who they are by those thoughts they use to judge the
whole universe with, example there is a God, or gods, or no gods. So they self identify by
their own thought life, they pick what actions they will take by thinking about what it is they
think is important and those things which are not so judgment calls are made all the time
by the thought life of us all. So thought crimes or not are just the hidden pieces of us all
that we don't have to share with others, but we all have them, as well as the things we
count as good and worth sharing because we count them as worth putting in the open for
all to see.

Originally posted by divegeester
You say "we", but you are not one of the "eternal suffering brigade" are you?

None of the eternal suffering believing (so called) Christians will defend their belief in this thread because they are too ashamed of it and cannot defend it. They will just bide their time and take a snide swing at me at a later date, probably by hiding behind a biblical scripture like jospehw did recently.

No, by "we", I mean Christians. But I see that some are into running people down (or often, it manifests as "hate" ) for their beliefs.

Actually I shouldn't be too surprised. There's also plenty of hate, from Christians especially, for those who insist that women have the right to control their own bodies.

But considering the sheer length of some of your threads about your 'pet peeve', there are Christians willing to defend it. But seriously, how many threads do we need to run through about it? You want to run people down, then do it. Don't fall back on some portion of mainstream Christian belief just so you can feel better about attacking other Christians.

Originally posted by FMF
I am just contributing to the discussion. Just telling me that what you think is different from what I think ~ in this petulant style you rely so heavily on [also demonstrated in the other posts of yours on this thread page] ~ is not much of a contribution. I hope there are other Christians more able than you to address the notion that the OP has raised. 😉

Reclassifying sin as merely a "thoughtcrime" is ridiculous. He's just "having a go" at theists, as are you.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Reclassifying sin as merely a "thoughtcrime" is ridiculous. He's just "having a go" at theists, as are you.

If someone thinks that the claims about Jesus' divinity and the significance of his life and death are not true, is that a "sin"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, by "we", I mean Christians. But I see that some are into running people down (or often, it manifests as "hate" ) for their beliefs.

Actually I shouldn't be too surprised. There's also plenty of hate, from Christians especially, for those who insist that women have the right to control their own bodies.

But considering the sheer len of mainstream Christian belief just so you can feel better about attacking other Christians.

I'm confused by the length of your angry blurt here...

Are you upset because I talk about things that are important to me; or are you upset because when I start a thread about something that is important to me, lots of propel post in it lots of times?

Originally posted by twhitehead
If God punishes at all and punishes because you are a 'bad person' then I see no reason whatsoever why bad thoughts should not be just as punishable as bad actions.
Even human law recognizes that attempted murder is nearly as bad as actual murder. Surely intended murder is too?

The biggest problem I have with the whole 'God punishes' claim is that man ...[text shortened]... unishment is a necessary action that serves no purpose but is merely a requirement of 'justice'.

Perhaps KellyJay can cast some light on this as it was him I was asking.

Unfortunately he is still in a huff with both of us and ignoring our posts.

Originally posted by 667joe
Can god punish his minions merely for certain thoughts? If so, as per Christopher Hitchens, this is worse than the North Korean dictatorship!

If the Internet can track what you do, where you go, what you wrote, etc. etc. that is human technology. Think of what God can do ?

However, the intimacy insight which God has towards our every thought, motive, imagination, memory comes with God's great love for us as well.

Why would someone think only on the negative side of this intimate insight of God into our thoughts ? Why not see the very positive side as well, that no one could do such an inside job of healing, comforting, curing too as God ?

His most intimate understanding and knowledge of my thought life is comforting. To be fair it can be daunting, IF I am interested in "getting away" with many evil things.

But it is liberating and comforting to know that my Heavenly Father knows my hearts most secret depths, yet loves me without end.

Come and rejoice with me!
For once my heart was poor,
And I have found a treasury
Of love, a boundless store.


Come and rejoice with me!
I, once so sick at heart,
Have met with One who knows my case,
And knows the healing art.

Come and rejoice with me!
For I have found a Friend
Who knows my heart's most secret depths,
Yet loves me without end.


I knew not of His love:
Yet He had loved so long,
With love so faithful and so deep,
So tender and so strong.

[From Hymns 285, Living Stream Ministry Hymns]