Thought Crimes

Originally posted by divegeester
So you are saying that God punishes for having the wrong thoughts?

Evil intentions are (by definition) evil and therefore prima facie punishable in the Christian scheme of things. Committing adultery in one's heart, coveting one's neighbor's wife, etc. are common examples. False belief about the nature of God constitutes heresy, which is a sin and therefore prima facie punishable in the Christian scheme of things.

Originally posted by moonbus
Evil intentions are (by definition) evil and therefore prima facie punishable in the Christian scheme of things. Committing adultery in one's heart, coveting one's neighbor's wife, etc. are common examples. False belief about the nature of God constitutes heresy, which is a sin and therefore prima facie punishable in the Christian scheme of things.

Can you demonstrate how this is supported in biblical scripture? I mean that God punishes a person for a thought.

Edit you may be correct by the way. I'm not sure.

Originally posted by divegeester
Can you demonstrate how this is supported in biblical scripture? I mean that God punishes a person for a thought.

Edit you may be correct by the way. I'm not sure.

Don't need a Biblical quote for that. Ask any bishop or priest.

Originally posted by moonbus
Don't need a Biblical quote for that. Ask any bishop or priest.

Is there a bishop or priest here in this forum whom we ask?

Originally posted by divegeester
Is there a bishop or priest here in this forum whom we ask?

Cardinal Ratzinger (before he became Pope Benedict) was head of the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, the Holy Office charged with investigating thought crime. The Holy Office was known in previous centuries as the Inquisition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

Originally posted by moonbus
Cardinal Ratzinger (before he became Pope Benedict) was head of the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, the Holy Office charged with investigating thought crime. The Holy Office was known in previous centuries as the Inquisition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

A couple of scripture on our thought life.

Psalm 73:7 From their callous hearts comes iniquity; their evil imaginations have no limits.

Genesis 6:5 KJV
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Exodus 20:17 (NIV) “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Matthew 15:18-20New International Version (NIV)
18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Acts 8:22
Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

Romans 2:15
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Ephesians 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I knew someone would find the right passages. Thanks, KJ. Q.E.D.

Originally posted by KellyJay
A couple of scripture on our thought life.

Psalm 73:7 From their callous hearts comes iniquity; their evil imaginations have no limits.

Genesis 6:5 KJV
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Exodus 20:17 (NIV) “You shall not covet your neigh ...[text shortened]... dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

These are excellent verses.

I think the "crime" that some are referring to is how the inward thought emerges up to cause the body to sin. I think what the Bible is saying is that the very inward error in the thought life bubbles up into an action in the physical body.

Therefore, the healing from the sinning must take place by a salvation which words in the soul and in the thought life.

It is the action that the body takes, I think, which leads to that sinning against God. It is in the thought life where a deep and far reaching salvation must take place by the One Who can do an "inside job" as no other - the Holy Spirit.

Your sampled verses were very good. More could be said. Fellowship could bring out more.

Originally posted by sonship
These are excellent verses.

I think the "crime" that some are referring to is how the inward thought emerges up to cause the body to sin. I think what the Bible is saying is that the very inward error in the thought life bubbles up into an action in the physical body.

Therefore, the healing from the sinning must take place by a salvation which words ...[text shortened]... .

Your sampled verses were very good. More could be said. Fellowship could bring out more.

The original sin was turning away from God in one's heart and in one's thoughts. Eating the apple is just a metaphor; the bodily action was merely an outward and delayed sign of an inward disobedience which had already occurred.

The original sin was turning away from God in one's heart and in one's thoughts. Eating the apple is just a metaphor; the bodily action was merely an outward and delayed sign of an inward disobedience which had already occurred.

I agree with you that the problem started in the heart. I cannot argue to much against that. However, the bodily action, was what was forbidden.

"And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat; for in the day you that eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:16,17)

I have to suspend for awhile. Maybe I can continue with your significant comment latter. Because the 10th commandment is a commandment against a thinking or feeling. So you have some ground.

But I think the law of God for the most part focuses on the action of the body.
From Genesis, God said "Because you have eaten ..." the transgression occurred.

Have to go now. Sorry.

Originally posted by sonship

The original sin was turning away from God in one's heart and in one's thoughts. Eating the apple is just a metaphor; the bodily action was merely an outward and delayed sign of an inward disobedience which had already occurred.

I agree with you that the problem started in the heart. I cannot argue to much against that. However, the bo ...[text shortened]... aid [b]"Because you have eaten ..." the transgression occurred.

Have to go now. Sorry.[/b]

Because I'm on a roll with some verse on thoughts, here are a few on the heart. 🙂
I find when I struggle the main battle is here.

Proverbs 4:23
Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.

Proverbs 24:12
If you say, “But we knew nothing about this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?

Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Originally posted by sonship
I agree with you that the problem started in the heart. I cannot argue to much against that. However, the bodily action, was what was [b]forbidden.

[quote] "And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat; for in the day you that eat ...[text shortened]... e body.
From Genesis, God said [b]"Because you have eaten ..." the transgression occurred.[/b]

Lets turn it around: what will be judged? Your body or your soul?

I once heard someone explain "sacrament" as an outward and visible sign of an inner grace. The apple represents a negative sacrament: the act of disobedience in eating of the forbidden tree was the outward and visible sign of the loss of inner grace which was its motive.

The Jewish law at the time of Jesus tended to focus on acts rather than motives. Jesus shifted the moral ground to the motive: not what you put into your mouth defiles you [e.g., eating pork and shellfish], but what comes out of it [i.e., lies and false testimony].

Originally posted by moonbus
Cardinal Ratzinger (before he became Pope Benedict) was head of the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, the Holy Office charged with investigating thought crime. The Holy Office was known in previous centuries as the Inquisition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

A reference to the Spanish Inquisition is not really a substitute biblical scripture is it.

Originally posted by divegeester
A reference to the Spanish Inquisition is not really a substitute biblical scripture is it.

Are you one of those people who think that if something is not in the Bible then it is not Christianity?

Originally posted by moonbus
Are you one of those people who think that if something is not in the Bible then it is not Christianity?

If something is not in the Bible then it is not the Christianity preached by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Much of Christianity is based on tradition rather than on laws and guidelines from Jesus.

Jesus encountered this problem with the Pharisees whose tradition corrupted the Law of Moses and made foolishness of the spirit of the law. Read what Christ said to them:

He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. (Mark 7:6-13 KJV)