Time Travel

@FMF

I don't believe in your God figure or the ideology surrounding it, . . .

I don't believe that your world without God has any real ground of absolute objective moral standard at all.

I think you have to steal from a Christian worldview to account for true moral oughtness and ought not-ness.

-Removed-

💩

@fmf said
Did your God, as depicted in the Bible, do everything he possibly could to convince Adam not to eat the fruit and so prevent 6,000 years of abject misery and human suffering? Or did he do less than everything he possibly could?

First question, yes.

Second question, no.

Your questions presuppose that God is flawed.

Adam failed.

@fmf said
Did God in the story do everything he possibly could to convince Adam not to eat the fruit?

Yes.

Again, your question presupposes He didn't. You would have to demonstrate how God failed to do what was necessary "to convince Adam not to eat the fruit?"

@sonship said
I intend to trust Jesus more than you or myself.

What a hurtful thing to say!

@josephw said
Yes.

Again, your question presupposes He didn't. You would have to demonstrate how God failed to do what was necessary "to convince Adam not to eat the fruit?"

I suggest you go back and read the thread then.

@sonship said
I don't believe that your world without God has any real ground of absolute objective moral standard at all.

I don't claim that it does.

@sonship said
I think you have to steal from a Christian worldview to account for true moral oughtness and ought not-ness.

I do not think for one single moment that "a Christian worldview" is not a solid contributor to the "nurture" element of my moral compass. To characterize my synthesis and assimilation of it as "stealing" carries no more rhetorical weight than your disapproval of my avatar, earlier on this thread.

@fmf said
I don't believe in your God figure or the ideology surrounding it, and, as for Jesus, whoever he was, he has been stone dead for 2,000 years.

And that is the premise upon which everything you say is based. Regardless of any answer given you in reply to your questions the final results are the same. Jesus is dead.

You asked if God did everything possible "to prevent 6,000 years of abject misery and human suffering?"

That question tells me you see that it is a fact that "abject misery and human suffering" is a reality, and other than using evolution to explain why misery and suffering exists you have no answer.

So you play the game of discrediting the scriptures in hope of cementing in your conscience the reasons for your unbelief.

Go ahead and believe Jesus is "stone dead". Find a better way if you can. Chalk it all up to evolution and one day you'll be stone dead too. End of story.

@josephw said
You asked if God did everything possible "to prevent 6,000 years of abject misery and human suffering?"

That question tells me you see that it is a fact that "abject misery and human suffering" is a reality, and other than using evolution to explain why misery and suffering exists you have no answer.

Do I think human misery exists? Yes, I do. Do I think it has anything to do with a character called "Adam" in a story? No, I don't. "6,000 years of misery" is a reference to the concept of "fallen man" laid out in the allegory/account of the "Garden of Eden". All I am doing is examining what the elephant-in-the-room immoral act might be in that story, even according to the details of the story itself.

@josephw said
So you play the game of discrediting the scriptures in hope of cementing in your conscience the reasons for your unbelief.

My "unbelief" does not affect my conscience and nothing connected with any of this needs "cementing" in my mind.

@josephw said
Go ahead and believe Jesus is "stone dead". Find a better way if you can. Chalk it all up to evolution and one day you'll be stone dead too. End of story.

If you believe that Jesus being NOT stone dead somehow means you and I will NOT be stone dead one day - if that works for you - then that is fine by me.

@fmf said
I do not think for one single moment that "a Christian worldview" is not a solid contributor to the "nurture" element of my moral compass.

How can you say that following what you said on the previous page?

"I'm finding the allegory/account to be a story of arguably enormous evil... I don't believe in your God figure or the ideology surrounding it, and, as for Jesus, whoever he was, he has been stone dead for 2,000 years."

What moral compass? The one you make up as you go along? The one you are borrowing from anything that suits your personal perspective and world view?

You are deeply confused and compromised in your conscience if you think your "moral compass" can sustain you when in reality you don't know jack-squat about the origin of life.

@josephw said
What moral compass?

Mine.

@josephw said
You are deeply confused and compromised in your conscience if you think your "moral compass" can sustain you when in reality you don't know jack-squat about the origin of life.

Neither of us knows what "the origin of life" was.