Originally posted by powershaker
YEP! That's exactly right. Ironically, since the time is near where Russia and her Muslim allies are to attack Israel - and the rapture close to this event (but no one knows when) - it is quite merciful that God has given us clear evidence of an intelligent designer to date. The present scientific studies - even people who did not believe - are coming ...[text shortened]... things. Amen. Peace be unto you all. I just had chills run down my spine. 🙂

BF101, Lee Strobel stole 15 bucks from you.

If you like that one, I bet you can't wait to read his latest, A Case for Lee Strobel's New Boat and then there's the much anticipated A Case for Paying Off Lee Stobel's New Vacation Home.

Sometimes I wish I were slimy enough to use my intellect to dupe evangelical xians out of their money. I'm sure that I could do a lot better job of it than Mr. Strobel.

Originally posted by powershaker
Yes. It's me. 🙂

I don't believe it for a second. You lack BF101's signature style.

Originally posted by powershaker
YEP! That's exactly right. Ironically, since the time is near where Russia and her Muslim allies are to attack Israel - and the rapture close to this event (but no one knows when) - it is quite merciful that God has given us clear evidence of an intelligent designer to date. The present scientific studies - even people who did not believe - are coming ...[text shortened]... things. Amen. Peace be unto you all. I just had chills run down my spine. 🙂

Stay tuned for another exciting episode of "The X(tian)-Files".

Originally posted by windmill
it takes faith to start your car.
walking makes you tired.
live in faith.
drive to die....

turning of the key in the ignition does complete the circuit to the startermotor which turns the engine over. f all to do with faith. mechanics are not the workers of your mythical god. i know enough of them to base this on fact (although admittedly not all).

Originally posted by The Chess Express
[b]faith is belief in something without proof.

Hebrews 11:1-2 NOW FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Correction, faith is the evidence that we find for ourselves.

prove there is a god.

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

You prove it. 🙂[/b]

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

and you're taking this for fact....if your imagination is as good as it seems then maybe like me you can hear this in a pirate voice.

this is not proof. asking to prove something is not there is not a difficult task. god does not exist. stop trying to throw it back at me and prove there is a god.

Originally posted by Rolfey
Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

and you're taking this for fact....if your imagination is as good as it seems then maybe like me you can hear this in a pirate voice.

this is not proof. asking to prove something is not there is not a difficult task. god does not exist. stop trying to throw it back at me and prove there is a god.

The point is simply that God gives proof to those who search for him. I realize how one could say that this sounds silly. Why search for flying pink elephants if there is no proof? Good point, but flying pink elephants have nothing to do with why we are here. Some things are worth searching for in an of themselves. What could it hurt?

If you haven’t looked at it already you might want to check out my “An Argument for the Existence of God Thread.” According to science the question of an intelligent creator is still open. Many scientists for example are also theists.

Happy hunting. 🙂

Originally posted by The Chess Express
The point is simply that God gives proof to those who search for him. I realize how one could say that this sounds silly. Why search for flying pink elephants if there is no proof? Good point, but flying pink elephants have nothing to do with why we are here. Some things are worth searching for in an of themselves. What could it hurt?

If you ha ...[text shortened]... ligent creator is still open. Many scientists for example are also theists.

Happy hunting. 🙂

admittedly i've not head much of this recent argument of intelligent design but i can't help but find the flaw of if it is if intelligent design happened, there must be a designer. as you can't prove who or what the designer is your just back to simple ol' faith with a new spin on it. currently i'm not impressed, but despite popular belief I am open to new things. i just take alot of convincing - hence i'm still a non believer.

Originally posted by Rolfey
admittedly i've not head much of this recent argument of intelligent design but i can't help but find the flaw of if it is if intelligent design happened, there must be a designer. as you can't prove who or what the designer is your just back to simple ol' faith with a new spin on it. currently i'm not impressed, but despite popular belief I am open to new things. i just take alot of convincing - hence i'm still a non believer.

Have you checked out my “An Argument for the Existence of God” thread?

Originally posted by The Chess Express
Have you checked out my “An Argument for the Existence of God” thread?

i have just read your post in the other thread (didn't read the 100+ replies)

i like some of it, i dislike more though. specifically your conclusion:

"In conclusion, we can say that science supports the theory that matter is not eternal, and that the universe is not self-existing but in fact has a cause. Unless we are to believe that something can emerge out of nothing, we can also say that science supports the theory of an intelligent creator. The anthropic principle is one of the ways that science has tried to justify this."

nowhere in your post do you prove that science supports the theory of an intelligent creator. i have never seen record of this before and i doubt i ever will. it's quite a leap.

Originally posted by Rolfey
i have just read your post in the other thread (didn't read the 100+ replies)

i like some of it, i dislike more though. specifically your conclusion:

"In conclusion, we can say that science supports the theory that matter is not eternal, and that the universe is not self-existing but in fact has a cause. Unless we are to believe that something can emer eator. i have never seen record of this before and i doubt i ever will. it's quite a leap.

According to science matter would have had to come from nothing but light and extreme temperature (something on the order of 50 million degrees). These are the conditions that were present in the singularity that started the big bang. Now science currently says that matter cannot come from just light and heat, so in this way God is supported.

You’re correct that this isn’t enough to prove an intelligent creator, but it makes for a good argument, hence the title of the thread. Basically, some new scientific law would have to be discovered to show us how matter can come from light and heat in order for there not to be a God.

Consider what this means. If the big bang is the most accepted theory that science has to offer, and science tells us that matter cannot come from just light and heat, it can be argued that science supports the possibility of a creator.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
According to science matter would have had to come from nothing but light and extreme temperature (something on the order of 50 million degrees). These are the conditions that were present in the singularity that started the big bang. Now science currently says that matter cannot come from just light and heat, so in this way God is supported.

this is a little caveman though don't you think? to use god as a stop gap until knowledge is gained.

i'm sorry, i'm still not able to agree with your opinion

Originally posted by Rolfey
this is a little caveman though don't you think? to use god as a stop gap until knowledge is gained.

i'm sorry, i'm still not able to agree with your opinion

Instead of waiting forever for science to prove God, why not conduct your own experiments? Follow the instructions that I provided for you on page 2. You’re more likely to get results.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
Instead of waiting forever for science to prove God, why not conduct your own experiments? Follow the instructions that I provided for you on page 2. You’re more likely to get results.

having a fairly logical mind as well as skeptical i'm afraid your method of finding proof by asking myself doesn't really cut it for me. even if i could prove it to myself that doesn't mean it is proof in general, i means i have chosen to believe it. probably mistaken to do so in the first place.

Originally posted by Rolfey
having a fairly logical mind as well as skeptical i'm afraid your method of finding proof by asking myself doesn't really cut it for me. even if i could prove it to myself that doesn't mean it is proof in general, i means i have chosen to believe it. probably mistaken to do so in the first place.

having a fairly logical mind as well as skeptical i'm afraid your method of finding proof by asking myself doesn't really cut it for me.

That’s an obstacle.

even if i could prove it to myself that doesn't mean it is proof in general, i means i have chosen to believe it. probably mistaken to do so in the first place.

Proof is not belief it’s knowledge. If you prove it to yourself then what does it matter if you can’t prove it to somebody else?

Hebrews 11:1-2 NOW FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

God gives us proof when we seek him. When the polio virus was plaguing America did the scientists agree that there was no proof of a cure and so it was silly to search for one? No way, they applied themselves and found the proof they needed. The point is that proof has to be sought after. Can you agree that God is more likely to be found in the heart than in the lab?

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
[b]having a fairly logical mind as well as skeptical i'm afraid your method of finding proof by asking myself doesn't really cut it for me.

That’s an obstacle.

even if i could prove it to myself that doesn't mean it is proof in general, i means i have chosen to believe it. probably mistaken to do so in the first place.

Proof is ...[text shortened]... Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.[/b]

logic is an obstacle? you must realise that this kind of view is as backwards as it gets?!

medics searched for the cure to polio, they found the cure to polio, they proved it to the world with hard factual evidence - this last part is what you are missing....