1. RDU NC
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    19 Apr '07 01:59
    should governments be allowed to enforce capital punishment?
    spiritually speaking, of course.
    and, please provide grounds and warrants.

    i am torn.
    as a theist, which is a popular word on here, and as a xian theist to boot, i try to develop my social contracts and desires from the bible.

    paul writes that the government is to carry the sword to defend justice.

    jesus says turn the other cheak.

    moses says an eye for an eye.

    jesus says do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

    prophets say that vengeance is god's. he will repay.

    any thoughts?
  2. Donationbbarr
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    19 Apr '07 02:02
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    should governments be allowed to enforce capital punishment?
    spiritually speaking, of course.
    and, please provide grounds and warrants.

    i am torn.
    as a theist, which is a popular word on here, and as a xian theist to boot, i try to develop my social contracts and desires from the bible.

    paul writes that the government is to carry the sword to defen ...[text shortened]... ave them do unto you.

    prophets say that vengeance is god's. he will repay.

    any thoughts?
    Dead men can't repent.
  3. Donationkirksey957
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    19 Apr '07 02:08
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    should governments be allowed to enforce capital punishment?
    spiritually speaking, of course.
    and, please provide grounds and warrants.

    i am torn.
    as a theist, which is a popular word on here, and as a xian theist to boot, i try to develop my social contracts and desires from the bible.

    paul writes that the government is to carry the sword to defen ...[text shortened]... ave them do unto you.

    prophets say that vengeance is god's. he will repay.

    any thoughts?
    Are you telling me that there are contradictions in the Bible?
  4. Joined
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    19 Apr '07 02:09
    [Hook: Krayzie Bone]
    Shoot, shoot, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up
    Shoot, shoot, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up
    Shoot, shoot, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up
    Shoot, shoot, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up, shoot 'em up
    Twelve gauges bust up in ya, playa haters we be quick to pin ya
    You know we know, you don't wanna roll
    Cause when we give it to ya, we're gonna bring it to ya, oh yeah
  5. Joined
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    19 Apr '07 02:10
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Are you telling me that there are contradictions in the Bible?
    go ahead and kill somebody and say the bible told you so, if God decides to get mad
  6. Melbourne, Australia
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    19 Apr '07 02:10
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    should governments be allowed to enforce capital punishment?
    spiritually speaking, of course.
    and, please provide grounds and warrants.

    i am torn.
    as a theist, which is a popular word on here, and as a xian theist to boot, i try to develop my social contracts and desires from the bible.

    paul writes that the government is to carry the sword to defen ...[text shortened]... ave them do unto you.

    prophets say that vengeance is god's. he will repay.

    any thoughts?
    As an atheist, I'm reluctant to draw any ethical conclusions from the bible. My view is that capital punishment is a barbaric throwback to earlier human civilisations.

    If I were to draw any conclusions I would of course choose those that suit my viewpoint - in this case that'd be Jesus and his views.

    But anyone is going to do exactly the same thing - use whichever texts support their view. You either support state-sponsored murder (OK I'm being a bit provocative) or you don't.
  7. RDU NC
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    19 Apr '07 02:11
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Dead men can't repent.
    if i recall from other posts, you don't hail from the same starting position as me, but i've thought about what you'd said here.

    if, as an "evangelical fundie," if i desire for people to be saved, and if i don't believe in chances after death, then i should want them to stay around at least until they "repent" as you say.

    however, since i'm not a freewill guy, and only god chooses to save, and if they're on death row (a lot of if's i know) and could be harmful to others if still alive... then perhaps.

    you see my wrestling.
  8. RDU NC
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    19 Apr '07 02:13
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Are you telling me that there are contradictions in the Bible?
    that's not what i'm getting at, but of course everybody must "work out" some parts to make them mesh with other parts. also, if it was inspired by god, then i'm sure there are some things we just don't grasp.

    now, if you could give an opinion.
  9. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    19 Apr '07 05:49
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    if i recall from other posts, you don't hail from the same starting position as me, but i've thought about what you'd said here.

    if, as an "evangelical fundie," if i desire for people to be saved, and if i don't believe in chances after death, then i should want them to stay around at least until they "repent" as you say.

    however, since i'm not a freew ...[text shortened]... d could be harmful to others if still alive... then perhaps.

    you see my wrestling.
    How many people (prisoners, guards etc.) are killed by people currently on death row?
  10. RDU NC
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    19 Apr '07 12:56
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    How many people (prisoners, guards etc.) are killed by people currently on death row?
    in truth, i don't know.

    but, it's certainly not outside the range of possibilities. and besides, if one is killed wouldn't that increase his need for accountability?

    again, i'm not certain on my position here. i'm looking for both theistic responses and a(non)theistic responses.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    19 Apr '07 15:12
    Originally posted by amannion
    As an atheist, I'm reluctant to draw any ethical conclusions from the bible. My view is that capital punishment is a barbaric throwback to earlier human civilisations.

    If I were to draw any conclusions I would of course choose those that suit my viewpoint - in this case that'd be Jesus and his views.

    But anyone is going to do exactly the same thing - ...[text shortened]... ew. You either support state-sponsored murder (OK I'm being a bit provocative) or you don't.
    As an atheist why do you think capital punishment is a barbaric
    throwback? Without religion what other reason do you have to keep
    someone alive who was found guilty of some crime so bad that
    death has been called for? Do you think life that important, I don't
    see that out of the godless world view where death is just a basic
    natural part of the whole process as far life evolving and moving
    forward. If I were an atheist and I'm not, to me it would simply be
    just kill them if they did something so bad the punishment is that
    bad. Why waist a penny keeping them alive we could be using for
    something else, like someone who just needs a hand for a short
    term like paying for an education.
    Kelly
  12. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    19 Apr '07 15:35
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    in truth, i don't know.

    but, it's certainly not outside the range of possibilities. and besides, if one is killed wouldn't that increase his need for accountability?

    again, i'm not certain on my position here. i'm looking for both theistic responses and a(non)theistic responses.
    Find out. Also, how many people are executed that were later found to be innocent?
  13. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    19 Apr '07 15:35
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    As an atheist why do you think capital punishment is a barbaric
    throwback? Without religion what other reason do you have to keep
    someone alive who was found guilty of some crime so bad that
    death has been called for? Do you think life that important, I don't
    see that out of the godless world view where death is just a basic
    natural part of the whole p ...[text shortened]... lse, like someone who just needs a hand for a short
    term like paying for an education.
    Kelly
    Here's something, morals don't just come from a really ancient book.
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    19 Apr '07 16:021 edit
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Here's something, morals don't just come from a really ancient book.
    Here is something, I did not reference a book if you follow the post
    I did reference evolutionary thought. So I take it than for you it is
    just personal taste?
    Kelly
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    19 Apr '07 16:04
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Find out. Also, how many people are executed that were later found to be innocent?
    Find out how many were guilty and set free and killed or raped again
    too while your at it?
    Kelly
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