Originally posted by FMF When you say God/Jesus "had to die" how do you figure that to be so? You believe humanity's behvaiour had backed God into a corner leaving him no choice?
He obviously had a choice, he could have left us in our sin but choose not to. Jesus willingly lay down his life to save us.
Originally posted by dj2becker He obviously had a choice, he could have left us in our sin but choose not to. Jesus willingly lay down his life to save us.
So you believe God didn't have the power to forgive "sins" without Jesus being executed by the Romans?
Originally posted by FMF So you believe God didn't have the power to forgive "sins" without Jesus being executed by the Romans?
God is Holy which mean he cannot tolerate sin. But he is also just, which means sin needs to be punished. If someone murdered your entire family and the judge said just let him go you would want justice wouldn't you? The only way for the murderer to get off with justice being maintained would be if someone else stepped up and said I did it the condemned man is innocent.
Originally posted by dj2becker The only way for the murderer to get off with justice being maintained would be if someone else stepped up and said I did it the condemned man is innocent.
How is what you describe "justice"?
"Someone else stepped up and said I did it", when they didn't?
Originally posted by FMF Repeating the assertion does not answer the question.
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Christ is "the propitiation," because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he expiated our guilt, covered it, by the punishment which he endured.
Originally posted by dj2becker 1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Christ is "the propitiation," because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he expiated our guilt, covered it, by the punishment which he endured.
This is still the mere regurgitation of dogma and not an explanation. What was stopping God from forgiving "sins" without doing what Christians have convinced themselves he did?
Originally posted by FMF This is still the mere regurgitation of dogma and not an explanation. What was stopping God from forgiving "sins" without doing what Christians have convinced themselves he did?
Would you think a judge who simply forgives someone and lets them off scot free is being just? Yes or No?
Originally posted by dj2becker Would you think a judge who simply forgives someone and lets them off scot free is being just? Yes or No?
It would surely depend on the details of the case. I think mercy and forgiveness can be a morally sound course of action in many situations.
If your judge punishes someone (who didn't commit the crime but) who steps in to take the punishment instead of the person who did the crime, is that - in your view - "justice"?
Originally posted by FMF It would surely depend on the details of the case. I think mercy and forgiveness can be a morally sound course of action in many situations.
If your judge punishes someone (who didn't commit the crime but) who steps in to take the punishment instead of the person who did the crime, is that - in your view - "justice"?
If you were facing death row and someone offered to take your punishment and your place at the gallows would you accept it or not?
24 May '17 08:551 edit
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