To sonship, on abortion

Originally posted by sonship
How do you feel about the doing harm to the millions of unborn children intentionally having their lives terminated in the mother's womb that a parent may be less troubled?

Hi sonship,

In the "Pure Evil" thread, I posed a question for you, which you may have missed. I'd like your thoughts on this, and this is not a trick to "catch you out" but a serious question on the implications of abortion on the unborn child, rather than the mother. This was my post:

Hi sonship,

First of all, let me make it crystal clear that I am NOT pro-abortion, and that I salute FMF for the example that he gave in having been instrumental in stopping one.

However, just as a thought experiment, ponder this:

Since you believe in Eternal Hellfire, would it not be reasonable to assume that (given the current % of Christians in the community) the majority of those aborted babies, had they grown to maturity, would have turned against Christ, and hence eternally punished?

Isn't it therefore infinitely better for them never to have been born, or, as an unblemished pre-baby with a living soul, sent straight to heaven?

Hence abortion is actually doing the spirit of that child an immense favor ?

Originally posted by CalJust
Originally posted by sonship
[b]How do you feel about the doing harm to the millions of unborn children intentionally having their lives terminated in the mother's womb that a parent may be less troubled?

Hi sonship,

In the "Pure Evil" thread, I posed a question for you, which you may have missed. I'd like your thoughts on this, and this i ...[text shortened]... heaven?

Hence abortion is actually doing the spirit of that child an immense favor ?[/quote][/b]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's like saying, "wouldn't it have been better that Jesus hadn't given His life for the few so that the many wouldn't perish alone".

Originally posted by CalJust

Since you believe in Eternal Hellfire, would it not be reasonable to assume that (given the current % of Christians in the community) the majority of those aborted babies, had they grown to maturity, would have turned against Christ, and hence eternally punished?

Isn't it therefore infinitely better for them never to have been born, or, as an unblemished pre-baby with a living soul, sent straight to heaven?

Hence abortion is actually doing the spirit of that child an immense favor ?

First let me say that I am not a political activist.
I think pro-Choice has its reasonings. But I think the best of worlds would recognize that it is not a good choice to end that human life.

I guess I think the choice should be made before conceiving a human life.

What about all those millions of people whose lives were terminated ?
It is an unknown to me what God will do with those people.

For all I know they could be the inhabitants of other planets in the solar system in a coming age. We hardly realize who we are dealing with. His power is infinite. His resources are beyond our comprehension.

Even with the Bible we could consider ourselves as babies in a crib knowing only a hint of His doings in the future.

Whatever sovereignty happens to this mysterious case of young lives ended, the motive of the ones responsible has to be considered by them before God.

It will be interesting to see if we see those millions of human beings latter.
I simply do not know.

I do not know how else to convey to people that we are dealing with God whose wisdom and knowledge are limitless. The hint of this is seen in the vastness - macro wise and micro wise, of the detectable universe.

He will not err.
He will not make a mistake.
He will not be unjust.

I expect in all things God is infallible.
And with a billion trillion details He will overlook nothing.

My response to both joseph and sonship would be that actually my comment is not about abortion per se, but about the ridiculous idea that at some stage (the so-called Age of Accountability) a child can burn forever, and a few years before that he/she is safe.

Take away the threat of Eternal Punishment, and the entire problem disappears.

Originally posted by CalJust
My response to both joseph and sonship would be that actually my comment is not about abortion per se, but about the ridiculous idea that at some stage (the so-called Age of Accountability) a child can burn forever, and a few years before that he/she is safe.

Take away the threat of Eternal Punishment, and the entire problem disappears.

Did I say anything about "Age of Accountability" ?

I guess I should know what in the world this is if you're going to set me up to be an advocate of it.

Originally posted by josephw
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't think a glib statement like that will progress the discussion.

But just to clarify things; what do you (josephw or sonship) believe happens to the souls of aborted babies?

And ... are those souls "happy" with what befalls them?

Originally posted by josephw
Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's like saying, "wouldn't it have been better that Jesus hadn't given His life for the few so that the many wouldn't perish alone".

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burning for a burning... Exodus 21:24

Of course in Matthew 5:38 Christ says to turn the other cheek. I wonder how much of the rest of the Old Testament should be disregarded by Christians.

Originally posted by DeepThought
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burning for a burning... Exodus 21:24

Of course in Matthew 5:38 Christ says to turn the other cheek. I wonder how much of the rest of the Old Testament should be disregarded by Christians.

The idea of "turning the other cheek" has nothing to do with punishment for a crime. It is an attempt to de-escalate a potential violent conflict before it gets serious.

Originally posted by sonship
Did I say anything about "Age of Accountability" ?

I guess I should know what in the world this is if you're going to set me up to be an advocate of it.

Sorry, I assumed that it was a commonly understood term. Let's take it step by step.

1. When a newborn baby dies, it goes straight to heaven, no questions asked. Hasn't sinned yet, cannot be punished. Right?

2. When an adult dies, who is not "saved", he/she will go to hell, right?

3. So in between, there is a point in time when Free Will kicks in. Some put it at 12 or 13, but it may actually vary. That is the Age of Accountability.

4. So, my argument goes, if you can absolutely guarantee that a soul will NOT have to endure this absolutely incomprehensible torture, you should catch it before they have the chance to say "Nay!"

And, of course, all aborted babies would definitely fall into this category.

This is actually a very simple question, and does not need explanations like "God is inscrutable, he knows best, and will do what is right."

PS : If you DO chose that response, then you are actually agreeing with me that in the end God WILL do what is right, which is not send anybody to such a dreadful place. How could you ever have thought it?!

Originally posted by RJHinds
The idea of "turning the other cheek" has nothing to do with punishment for a crime. It is an attempt to de-escalate a potential violent conflict before it gets serious.

Feel free to give your opinion on the question that I asked sonship, since you also believe in Eternal Punishment.

From the babie's point of view, Is it more advantageous for them to have been aborted, or not?

Looks like this one has the Fundamentalist Club stumped?

No takers?

🙁

The silence is deafening...

Surely, if you are intellectually honest, you must have thought about this question.

I mean, it's not as if it was a theoretical construct - we are talking about what happens every day!

So what happens to aborted babies?

Originally posted by CalJust
The silence is deafening...

Surely, if you are intellectually honest, you must have thought about this question.

I mean, it's not as if it was a theoretical construct - we are talking about what happens every day!

So what happens to aborted babies?

What happens to aborted babies?

They go in the dumpster silly. 😵

So get out there and elect more progressives. After all, just think of the jobs it will create with the garbage service.

Of course, we have the added bonus of all these babies going to heaven, so get out there and lets kill some babies!! 😠

Progressive logic 101

Originally posted by whodey
What happens to aborted babies?

They go in the dumpster silly. 😵

So get out there and elect more progressives. After all, just think of the jobs it will create with the garbage service.

Of course, we have the added bonus of all these babies going to heaven, so get out there and lets kill some babies!! 😠

Progressive logic 101

Caljust is clearly asking about the "souls" of babies after they die, Whodey. Either you answer his question or, if you can't muster the decency to stick to the topic at hand and feel like ranting about politics again, maybe do the respectful thing and just STFU.

You've made it abundantly clear that you simply refuse to answer critical questions, so why bother pretending?

Originally posted by whodey
What happens to aborted babies?

They go in the dumpster silly. 😵

So get out there and elect more progressives. After all, just think of the jobs it will create with the garbage service.

Of course, we have the added bonus of all these babies going to heaven, so get out there and lets kill some babies!! 😠

Progressive logic 101

The OP is not about "progressives". The question is posed by one anti-abortion Christian to another anti-abortion Christian and is a theological one, not a political one.