27 Oct '14 03:18>1 edit
Originally posted by wolfgang59A lawyer will decide if I go to heaven or hell?
No it isn't.
It is akin to lawyers interpreting the law handed down by the legislature.
So much for eternal life. I'm fresh out of money. 😲
Originally posted by CalJustThat is their business, but I don't agree with it.
I agree with you on this. (With the exception that I would replace "heaven and hell" with "life after death"😉
However, would you dispute that many Christians on this forum, specifically sonship and RJH, regularly do just that? And tell us, on great authority who gets to go to hell?
Originally posted by lemon limeHi lemon lime,
Just for the sake of clarification, is there any disagreement among Christians here as to the existence of hell? Or does the disagreement primarily (exclusively?) have to do with whether sufferingb and torment will go on forever or not?
I'm asking for the sake of my own clarification, and not because the question is directly related to the OP.
Originally posted by CalJustPassages in the Bible about hell aren't there for scaring the heathen, they are there for informing the believer.
Hi lemon lime,
Speaking for myself, I believe that the very existence of hell as a place of eternal suffering and torment (and if it is not that, what then is it?) is untenable with the concept of a loving and caring God, which we see as a basic principle in numerous places of the Bible.
Granted, there ARE the "hellfire and brimstone" passages which RJ ...[text shortened]... king the Biblical message as a whole, the concept is jarring and indefensible on so many levels.
Originally posted by lemon limeI totally agree with your distinction between "bad" fear, and something like "reverence", or "respect", (like for a shark.)
Passages in the Bible about hell aren't there for scaring the heathen, they are there for informing the believer.
One of my personal favorites is Mathew 10:28. If I fear a loving God then I have no reason to fear anyone (or anything) else.
Originally posted by whodeyI’ve mentioned this before many times, but of course you will simply ignore it once again: You yourself have absolutely no problems with “playing god” when it happens to be about something that you approve of. Then the argument of “playing god” goes out the window.
Trying to decide who goes to heaven or hell is playing God. Why then do Christians engage in it?
I realize why left winged atheists engage in it, even though they don't believe in a God. It is because they feel the need to fill the apparent vacancy and dictate every aspect of our lives to us.
Originally posted by CalJustI'm not comfortable with the doctrine of hell, never have been. And I definitely don't want to know who is going to hell and who isn't, because there are people I know and care about who might end up there. It distresses me to think about it, but the fact is I literally can not know who will have to suffer that fate or not... so I can at least take some comfort in not knowing, because it's not my call.
I totally agree with your distinction between "bad" fear, and something like "reverence", or "respect", (like for a shark.)
Actually, I have no interest in changing anybody's pov on any matter of faith. If you are comfortable with the doctine of hell, fine.
All I can say is that it was with a huge sigh of relief that I was able to jettison it without e ...[text shortened]... tlook on life!
But, as I said, if you are comfortable with it, go in peace and be blessed...
Originally posted by lemon limeGood point.
But if God cares about me and won't lie to me, and he says it's there, then why shouldn't I believe him? If I get into the habit of picking and choosing what I want to believe is true (or not true) then how am I any different than someone who falls into the habit of comforting himself with self serving lies? How can I know and be absolutely sure if hell is off the table or not?
Originally posted by divegeesterYou should put more effort into proving you aren't a sheep in wolves clothing.
Good point.
However as you have stated that you do not accept the bible as evidence of what Christians believe about god/Christ; then on what basis do you personally feel that you[b] should believe that hell exists?[/b]
Originally posted by lemon limeIf this is so, why then ~ when asked by divegeester "...as a Christian yourself, do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?" ~ did you answer: "No, I don't. I didn't accept that before I believed in God and I still don't accept it"?
What I said before and am saying again (for the 3rd or 4th time, I've lost count) is that the Bible is obviously evidence of Biblical doctrine.
Originally posted by FMFMathew 13 ESV
If this is so, why then ~ when asked by divegeester "...as a Christian yourself, do you not accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?" ~ did you answer: "No, I don't. I didn't accept that before I believed in God and I still don't accept it"?
Originally posted by lemon limeAll your difficulties appear to stem from the fact that you are willing to adopt any contortion just so long as you do not have to retract a stance you took on the Bible that you obviously cannot defend because it is, let's face it, completely absurd. You'd rather just brazen it out and pretend you didn't say what you said. It has been interesting to witness.
Mathew 13 ESV
A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Othe ...[text shortened]... yes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.
Originally posted by FMFYou have been interesting to watch as well, but I've gotten over my unhealthy fascination with how your mind works. So now I'm thinking if quoting scripture worked for Jesus to get Satan off his back, then maybe it will work for me too.
All your difficulties appear to stem from the fact that you are willing to adopt any contortion just so long as you do not have to retract a stance you took on the Bible that you obviously cannot defend because it is, let's face it, completely absurd. You'd rather just brazen it out and pretend you didn't say what you said. It has been interesting to witness.