To what end?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
As an atheist, i meet all those critical requirements.

So, i'm in right?

Christ will decide if you are in. There are many people that have the love of God in them and they byinstinct do the right thing [Romans 2]. They are compassionate to those less fortunate and are generous with their worldly goods. These are the people Christ spoke of here:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Mat 25:34-36)

Similarly in the Good Samaritan story, the priest and the Levite both outwardly Godfearing were the ones that will get cast into outer darkness while the Samaritan who was just acting on the natural instinct to be compassionate was the one to help Jesus Christ.

Do you think Jesus will forget the Samaritan on judgment day? I doubt he will forget you either if your claims are true.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]So, i'm in right?

In whose eyes? Anyone can say (and believe) they are right in their own eyes. But as an atheist, you can say you meet all of those critical requirements without worrying over whether God agrees with you or not.

I can't do that because I'm not an atheist.[/b]

According to 'the eyes' of my conscience.

We each have one of those, irrespective of its origin.

Originally posted by Rajk999

Do you think Jesus will forget the Samaritan on judgment day? I doubt he will forget you either if your claims are true.

Thank you.

God and i have a complicated understanding.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Thank you.

God and i have a complicated understanding.

I'm sure if there IS a god out there, it is having a rhetorical belly laugh at our man made religions.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So Christ was mistaken. its just that you dont want to use the term 'mistaken'.

Please don't put words in my mouth to distort my meaning just so you can make a point!
I said Jesus was not mistaken, could not have been more clear.
I asked you have you been able to do what that scripture said your whole life?
Have you always loved God and your fellow man and not ever fallen short on those two
points? Do you know anyone who has loved God and their fellow man their whole lives
without ever falling short, anyone at all? You even heard of anyone who did this their
whole lives outside of Jesus?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Clearly you are avoiding passages that appear to conflict with your belief. There is a way to marry all of them so that there is no confusion in the Bible, but you prefer not to see it because it will involve softening up your hard stance

There is no conflict in my belief. I just believe you put the wrong one first when it comes to
our justification. I believe Jesus saves us, and through Him we are saved, to do the works
He has for us, repentance from sin one of the very first. I do not believe we can come to
God without God's help, I don't believe we will turn away from sin without God's help, It
is all a gift of God towards us, He is our sure foundation not our efforts to be good
enough to please Him. He is good and Holy, we are sinners in need of His grace and
mercy, it isn't we are good workers who God sees and picks us out of a crowd to be His
while all the bad workers go to Hell, all of us have sinned and fallen short.

I'd also suggest the log you see is in your eyes on this point not mine.

Originally posted by Rajk999
This the crux of your problem.

[b]Jesus saves YES ...but ... Who is it that will get eternal life from Jesus Christ ?

On one hand you are talking about those who claim to know Christ as it that is the deciding factor. It is not.

It is those who in the opinion of Christ are good and righteous people. And this is clearly stated all over the Bi ...[text shortened]... ents about avoiding sin, about good works and righteousness as the key to being in Gods kingdom.[/b]

I DO NOT DISAGREE with you about sin and God, He calls us to be Holy which is to avoid
sin. If Jesus saves us we will get eternal life, if we are not saved we will die in our sins. You
it seems to want to paint some sinners as better than others so the ones you are okay with
are going to get eternal life from Jesus Christ. All sin, are have fallen short, and when Jesus
saves us we are saved, He is our sure foundation the One we rely on not our own efforts.

You have never seen me say anything about it is okay to sin, sin when it is done will kill
you it brings about death.

Originally posted by Rajk999
That is exactly what I addressed and you are the one that seems to ignore it. Fellowship with God comes through Christ [b]abiding in you or knowing you. John deals with that issue very clearly.

The typical Christian seems to believe that fellowship with God or with Christ is about attending church, singing hymns, praying long prayers, shoutin ...[text shortened]... ents
Abiding in Christ = Avoiding Sin
Those who dont keep Christ commandments have nothing[/b][/b]

The reason I've picked this discussion with you is that you made claims that there are going
to be those outside of Christ who will be saved by their efforts of good works. You seem to
be singing a different song here.

I am talking about abiding in Christ, that is difficult to do if you have not given your life to
Him and made Jesus your Lord. So how can anyone not belong to Jesus abide in Him?

I don't care what your views are on the typical Christian and frankly they are not part of
this discussion. If you want to claim to know what they believe fine, start a thread and
bad mouth them all day long, I will not be there.

With respect to making Jesus your Lord and savior, what do you think that means?
What does God do?

Where have you seen me say that it is okay to live in sin?

I'm telling you knowing God is the best part of Christianity, the closer you get to Him the
better off you are, the more you abide in Him, the better off you are. Without God's Spirit
in you, you do not belong to God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have to add that the Christian sect to which you belong completely ignore their very powerful utterances of Christ and the Apostles :

[i]James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Though I speak with the tongues of me ...[text shortened]... n live up to them, and how you arrive at that I cannot know. Regardless, Gods word still stands.

Yes, I believe all have sinned and fallen short.
I do believe in Christ we are clean and will as we abide in Him and follow Him will we live
the life we should live in. I believe in Christ our strength when it is little will be made strong
by God, I believe when the enemy comes in like a flood the Lord will give us a standard
that will help us. Our sure foundation is not our efforts, but God, and if we sin and confess
and turn from our wicked ways we will be forgiven. So unless you want to tell me you
or anyone you know has stopped sinning the day they first believed and reject all who
have sinned since that day I don't see your complaint. If you want to condemn anyone for
sin I hope for your sake you don't sin, because with what judgment you use on others will
be used on you.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
As an atheist, i meet all those critical requirements.

So, i'm in right?

No you are condemned already.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
According to 'the eyes' of my conscience.

We each have one of those, irrespective of its origin.

Right, we all have a conscience. And if no one has ever heard about God and dies never learning about this, then God will judge according to conscience. But here's the rub, you do know... you are not ignorant of the gospel. If you knew nothing about God or the gospel you would not be an atheist*, because there would be no awareness of a God for you to not believe in him. So being an atheist automatically disqualifies you from claiming ignorance.

There really aren't any loopholes here if that's what you're looking for. if you know then you are accountable for what you know. If you don't know, you won't be held accountable for what you don't know, but you will be held accountable according to your conscience.

And claiming you didn't know because you didn't believe it isn't the sort of technicality that can hold up in (Gods) court... in the U.S. judicial system it is said that ignorance of the law is no excuse. So none of this should be too difficult for anyone to understand.


* this discussion is specifically about the Judeo-Christian God, who is regarded as being the only God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No you are condemned already.

Not again.

😞

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Not again.

😞

Lol, lol, lol. I just had to comment Ghost. I really thought you might get 'in'. 🙂

Originally posted by lemon lime
Right, we all have a conscience. And if no one has ever heard about God and dies never learning about this, then God will judge according to conscience. But here's the rub, you [b]do know... you are not ignorant of the gospel. If you knew nothing about God or the gospel you would not be an atheist*, because there would be no awareness of a God for you ...[text shortened]... ion is specifically about the Judeo-Christian God, who is regarded as being the only God.[/b]

Ignorance is not my defense sir. I have studied and rejected man made information about God that i believe is a distraction rather than an aid to understanding. 'If' God exists i do not believe i will be judged for having rejected erroneous knowledge and books purely of human origin. 'If' God exists only 'direct' contact has any true meaning, only our guiding conscience will see us on the correct path. We are 'only' accountable for our own actions, not for ignoring words of other men who would have us believe and act as they do.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
We are 'only' accountable for our own actions, not for ignoring words of other men who would have us believe and act as they do.

Even if one of those 'other men' is the only begotten Son of God?