Originally posted by KellyJayDoes anyone professing to be a Christian truly accomplish this? I have this vision of the Pearly Gates: St. Peter sitting at a table with festive bunting, chin in hand and tapping his foot while "The Girl From Ipanema" muzak plays from tinny speakers. No one shows up for century after century.
"Christ says to get eternal life:
... Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. (Luk 10:25-27) .. Was He mistaken? "
Seemingly, the requirement for eternal life is to give oneself to God so wholly as to bring about the death of self. When the ego is gone there is no "I," and thus eternal life is equivalent to eternal mindlessness. That's the way I see it anyway, and it's certainly not an appealing prospect.
Originally posted by Soothfast
Seemingly, the requirement for eternal life is to give oneself to God so wholly as to bring about the death of self.
That is correct.
But it is more like the grafting of a sick branch into a healthy tree.
The life of Christ eventually swallows up all the defects of the one abiding in Him.
God knows that He can do it.
God is righteous to to it.
God is not true to His own promises and His on covenant if He cannot accomplish it.
So we have confidence that He has started an operation in us that He will complete. He will present us without fault or blemish both positionally and dispositionally.
HE CAN ACCOMPLISH THIS. And He must for the fulfillment of His own eternal purpose.
When the ego is gone there is no "I," and thus eternal life is equivalent to eternal mindlessness.
No it is not. It is mind renewing. It is obtaining "the mind of Christ".
More that that it is finding our TRUE soul. It is realization that we have been deceived and that in losing ourselves in Christ, paradoxically we have really FOUND our soul.
It is better to lose in this age and FIND in the next than to save in this age only to lose all in the next.
That's the way I see it anyway, and it's certainly not an appealing prospect.
You should change your concept. You should realize regeneration, sanctification, resurrection, conforming to the image of Christ, glorification, and transfiguration are a great salvation to man.
We are presently infested with leeches and parasites which we think are us. We need to be set free. You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free - Jesus.
More importantly, God needs our total salvation for the accomplishment of His own eternal purpose.
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeWhen I was an atheist I came up with some rather ingenious explanations of my own. Like Pauls conversion for example. My explanation was that Paul had a stroke. That's why he fell off his horse and had a vision of Jesus talking to him. The reason for his stroke was a guilty conscience for persecuting Christians, but he wasn't aware of this consciously... his subconscious mind was the source of the internal conflict and the cause his stroke.
Ignorance is not my defense sir. I have studied and rejected man made information about God that i believe is a distraction rather than an aid to understanding. 'If' God exists i do not believe i will be judged for having rejected erroneous knowledge and books purely of human origin. 'If' God exists only 'direct' contact has any true meaning, only ou ...[text shortened]... r own actions, not for ignoring words of other men who would have us believe and act as they do.
Pretty nifty, huh? I thought so, until I looked closer and discovered a problem with it. The problem with 'my story' was that it wasn't necessarily so. It was a made up story authored by me. And the only reason another man might agree with this nifty piece of speculation is if he already didn't believe in Gods existence.
So yes, I get where you're coming from. It logically follows that if there is no God, then the stories would have absolutely had to come from men... period. No-God means it was all made up by men. But a no-God scenario begins with an assumption, and assumptions don't necessarily lead to the truth.
So let's assume instead there is a God. You may still assert stories of God are all made up by men, but you don't have the same direct link between God being real and made up stories about God as you would with the no-God idea absolutely leading to one conclusion... no-God means they are only stories, period. But if God does exist, and you assume any story about him is fiction, then you could be missing out on the truth by assuming anything you've heard about him is false.
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By the way, I used the word 'ignorant' in my other message to be seen by a few know-it-alls who have an annoying habit of calling people 'ignorant'. It wasn't meant as a slam against you personally, it was mostly directed toward them. I won't say who they are because...
they know who they are
Originally posted by KellyJayJesus Christ will decide who follows his teachings. Not you and not me.
Please don't put words in my mouth to distort my meaning just so you can make a point!
I said Jesus was not mistaken, could not have been more clear.
I asked you have you been able to do what that scripture said your whole life?
Have you always loved God and your fellow man and not ever fallen short on those two
points? Do you know anyone who has loved ...[text shortened]... hort, anyone at all? You even heard of anyone who did this their
whole lives outside of Jesus?
You are trying to steer the discussion away from the topic.
The discussion is about what is taught by Christ, not whether people are capable of doing it.
Originally posted by KellyJayIm having problems with this discussion so Im going to end now. A discission with you trying to bring in personalities and comparing what I do and what anyone does is not my style.
Yes, I believe all have sinned and fallen short.
I do believe in Christ we are clean and will as we abide in Him and follow Him will we live
the life we should live in. I believe in Christ our strength when it is little will be made strong
by God, I believe when the enemy comes in like a flood the Lord will give us a standard
that will help us. Our sure ...[text shortened]... for your sake you don't sin, because with what judgment you use on others will
be used on you.
Why cant you discuss what Christ said or what the Bible said without asking me about myself. I am not condemning anyone,.. simply because I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE AROUND HERE !
I am quoting what the Bible says and trying to understand the Bible, and trying to understand your view of the Bible and how you arrived at it.
I see that you cannot do that without asking me what I do.
Have you noticed that I never ask you about yourself?
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Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another😉 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (Rom 2:13-16)
Ignorance is not my defense sir. I have studied and rejected man made information about God that i believe is a distraction rather than an aid to understanding. 'If' God exists i do not believe i will be judged for having rejected erroneous knowledge and books purely of human origin. 'If' God exists only 'direct' contact has any true meaning, only ou ...[text shortened]... r own actions, not for ignoring words of other men who would have us believe and act as they do.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I started this thread thank you very much I know what it is about I'm not attempting to
Jesus Christ will decide who follows his teachings. Not you and not me.
You are trying to steer the discussion away from the topic.
The discussion is about what is taught by Christ, not whether people are capable of doing it.
steer it in a direction away from the topic!
You have made it clear that non Christians can be saved, and I'm telling you no that is
never going to happen. We are only saved by Jesus Christ and that is due to him not
our works as you suggest is true.
Jesus has said a couple of things about us, some are condemned already, and those
he does not know will be told to go away from Him even though they believed in Him,
and did works in His name. So if you are going to suggest that we can be saved without
Jesus, but through our own efforts, I disagree with you.
If NO ONE can do the things required on their own than NO ONE is going to be saved
by their own works! I'd say that is very important and on point, it is only through Jesus
we can be saved it will not be by our own efforts, but by His grace. We will follow Him
as the Spirit of God leads us into all the works he has for us, but in Him will we be saved.
Originally posted by SoothfastIf you think God is not active in this you miss the best part of the whole process which is
Does anyone professing to be a Christian truly accomplish this? I have this vision of the Pearly Gates: St. Peter sitting at a table with festive bunting, chin in hand and tapping his foot while "The Girl From Ipanema" muzak plays from tinny speakers. No one shows up for century after century.
Seemingly, the requirement for eternal life is to give ...[text shortened]... nal mindlessness. That's the way I see it anyway, and it's certainly not an appealing prospect.
God in us. My favorite verse in all of the Bible is Genesis 15:1 which has God speaking to
Abram in a vision. "
“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,
your very great reward.”
God Himself is our very great reward, there is nothing better! If you think any of us can
do enough to be saved you'd be wrong. It will remain God's grace, we come giving Him
our lives as is for the life He has for us. He saw us at our worst, and yet Jesus shed His
blood for us, we are such crud. This is such a great gift, beyond all we could possibly
hope for.
God has been working with us from the beginning of time, just because we don't always
see Him does not mean that He isn't there.
Eternal life, you've nothing to compare that to so that you could grasp it. You live in this
space we call (now) which is so small that its beginning is the same as its end. Scripture
teaches us that it has not entered into the mind of man what God has for us, to think you
grasp what is coming I'd say shows a little arrogance on your part, there is no way you
could possibly know.
If truth be told about the eternal, do you think you could be completely wrong about it?
Originally posted by KellyJayYou now claim to know who is going to get eternal life and who is not.
I started this thread thank you very much I know what it is about I'm not attempting to
steer it in a direction away from the topic?
You have made it clear that non Christians can be saved, and I'm telling you no that is
never going to happen. We are only saved by Jesus Christ and that is due to him not
our works as you suggest is true.
Jesus has s ...[text shortened]... im
as the Spirit of God leads us into all the works he has for us, but in Him will we be saved.
Do you think that Christ is not able to grant eternal life to whoever he wishes?
Originally posted by Rajk999Another discussion being left by you, typical.
Im having problems with this discussion so Im going to end now. A discission with you trying to bring in personalities and comparing what I do and what anyone does is not my style.
Why cant you discuss what Christ said or what the Bible said without asking me about myself. I am not condemning anyone,.. simply because I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE AROUND HERE !
...[text shortened]... ot do that without asking me what I do.
Have you noticed that I never ask you about yourself?
What you do I could care less about, but teaching people they don't need Jesus you'll have
blood on your hands before God.
Originally posted by Rajk999I've never claimed to know who has eternal life outside of those that belong to Jesus
You now claim to know who is going to get eternal life and who is not.
Do you think that Christ is not able to grant eternal life to whoever he wishes?
Christ, I know it is not those that Jesus said were condemned already unless they turn
to Him before its to late.
Originally posted by KellyJayYou claim to know .. you said:
I've never claimed to know who has eternal life outside of those that belong to Jesus
Christ, .
You have made it clear that non Christians can be saved, and I'm telling you no that is
never going to happen
I said it is possible you say impossible.
Clearly you know for sure.
Me saying 'possible' means that I am not certain.
You saying 'never going to happen' means you are certain.
You get it?
Originally posted by Rajk999Yea I get it, you think without Jesus some can be righteous enough, that it is possible.
You claim to know .. you said:
You have made it clear that non Christians can be saved, and I'm telling you no that is
never going to happen
I said it is possible you say impossible.
Clearly you know for sure.
Me saying 'possible' means that I am not certain.
You saying 'never going to happen' means you are certain.
You get it?
I believe all have sinned and fallen short so that none of us can be good enough.
You saying it is possible means it could happen, when I'm saying not according to
scripture that is not possible. When I pointed you to scripture that spells it out very
plainly you don't just talk about those showing me where I'm wrong, instead you
ignore them and bring up others that you think support your views, but the trouble
you have is they are all part of the Word of God and all of them matter not just
the ones you like.
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Originally posted by KellyJayChrist can grant eternal life to whoever he pleases. He does not need to consult with you or your pastor or with Paul or with the Bible. Christ will judge. We can all speculate BUT YOU SEEM TO BE CERTAIN OF WHO WILL NOT GET IT.
Yea I get it, you think without Jesus some can be righteous enough, that it is possible.
I believe all have sinned and fallen short so that none of us can be good enough.
You saying it is possible means it could happen, when I'm saying not according to
scripture that is not possible. When I pointed you to scripture that spells it out very
plainly you ...[text shortened]... have is they are all part of the Word of God and all of them matter not just
the ones you like.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Mat 25:34-40)
Notice who is answering Christ ...THE RIGHTEOUS. Christ rewards the righteous who live charitably and help those less fortunate.
The fact that you insist that nobody can do that means you are living in a very deprived fake-christian environment.. most likely in an advanced [socalled] country. Thankfully I still live in a backward 3rd world country. I feel nothing but pity for those like you who profess to be Christian and claim to know Christ and yet you cannot bring yourself to accept the teachings of Christ because your environment is stronger than your faith. I pity you. I hope you find he strength to obey Christ.