1. Standard membermenace71online
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    09 Sep '09 02:581 edit
    Philippians 2:6 (NASB)
    who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)
    Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (King James Version)
    6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

    Philippians 2:6 (New world Translation) (JW's)(Just to be fair)
    6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God

    It reads that although Jesus was equal with God He was Humble in His humanity to the Fathers plan. Equal with God. So Jesus was equal with God. Yes Jesus emptied Himself but He had equality with God. Also John 17:5 He asking for His glory back that was His before the world was.

    5"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Manny
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    09 Sep '09 03:10
    Originally posted by menace71
    Philippians 2:6 (NASB)
    who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)
    Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (King James Version)
    6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ...[text shortened]... Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Manny
    So what are you saying? Thanks.
  3. Standard membermenace71online
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    09 Sep '09 04:224 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    So what are you saying? Thanks.
    What I'm saying is Jesus is Equal to God. Meaning Jesus is God. Just because He emptied Himself in His earthy ministry He never ceased being God. Also He was the very image of God as stated in Colossians. How can He be equal to Jehovah?? Who is like Jehovah? Right? Does Jehovah really have an equal? Yes so this is what the scripture says anyway.

    17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

    18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    I think we are left with only two choices either the bible is very contradictory in nature or God is more complex than logic. I was thinking about this a lot. Jesus also took on prerogatives of God alone. He forgave sin. He raised the Dead. He knew the hearts of all men. He was the word that was with God (not created)The very expression of God. Yet He emptied Himself. God said I will provide the lamb! The other thing is just because something has a resemblance to something else such as pagan deities does not negate Who Christ is. The Christian church did not just pull the concept of a triune God out of nowhere. The Apostle Paul makes many references to God's triune nature. Paul was a Jew of Jews. They understood hear the Lord your God is one! This would make the Apostle Paul an Idolater then or on the other hand the same One God revealed more of Himself in the person of Christ & of course His spirit.



    Manny
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    09 Sep '09 05:131 edit
    Cleansing the Temple
    12And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.

    13And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."

    14And the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them.

    15But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that He had done, and the children who were shouting in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they became indignant

    16and said to Him, "Do You hear what these children are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, 'OUT OF THE MOUTH OF INFANTS AND NURSING BABIES YOU HAVE PREPARED PRAISE FOR YOURSELF'?"

    LORD, our Lord,
    How majestic is Your name in all the earth,
    Who have displayed Your splendor above the heavens!
    2From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength

    Jesus quotes scripture Psalm 8 referring to God Himself. How dare Jesus do that! Why would Jesus commit blasphemy? These O.T. quotes refer to God himself why would Jesus take claim of these?

    Manny
  5. Standard membermenace71online
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    09 Sep '09 05:28
    If Jesus were just a mere man or Good teacher or created being than His statements like He who loves Mother & Father more than me are not worthy of me! He who loves Son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me! These would be the words of a mere lunatic or worse. I would say only God could command such allegiance.




    Manny
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    09 Sep '09 07:06
    However entitled you are to believe as you wish, I believe otherwise. That is not the purpose of the post, however; I am curious why you post part of the temple story...? What is the meaning of the post?
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    09 Sep '09 09:26
    Originally posted by menace71
    If Jesus were just a mere man or Good teacher or created being than His statements like He who loves Mother & Father more than me are not worthy of me! He who loves Son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me! These would be the words of a mere lunatic or worse. I would say only God could command such allegiance.




    Manny
    Why couldn't Jesus say this and not be God Almighty? Didn't Jesus say that we need to follow him instead of putting our allegiance to other humans? Sure it would be hard to make that decision but if we put fleshly things ahead of hope for the future of eternal life, then we could loose out.
    What is so hard to understand that his Father, Jehovah, allows his son Jesus to command such authourity? Didn't Jesus earn it? Jehovah can do whatever he wants as he answers to no one and can let Jesus have any honor that he's earned.
    If you had a son that did such an incredible thing, would you not want to reward him?
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    09 Sep '09 09:43
    Originally posted by menace71
    What I'm saying is Jesus is Equal to God. Meaning Jesus is God. Just because He emptied Himself in His earthy ministry He never ceased being God. Also He was the very image of God as stated in Colossians. How can He be equal to Jehovah?? Who is like Jehovah? Right? Does Jehovah really have an equal? Yes so this is what the scripture says anyway.

    17 But ...[text shortened]... One God revealed more of Himself in the person of Christ & of course His spirit.



    Manny
    Verse 17: Well yes they've both been working just as a Father and his son might work on a project together.

    Verse 18: His Father..Yes it his Father. I'm not my Father, he is my Father.

    Manny. Why couldn't Jesus do all these things and not be God Almighty? Why could not Jehovah give him the power and ability to do the things he did? Who are we to say he couldn't?
    Also did not the early apostles perform miracles? So does that make them God?
  9. Standard membermenace71online
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    09 Sep '09 13:44
    Originally posted by Badwater
    However entitled you are to believe as you wish, I believe otherwise. That is not the purpose of the post, however; I am curious why you post part of the temple story...? What is the meaning of the post?
    The psalmist was referring to God Almighty as our JW friends like to say. Jesus applies this Psalm to Himself in the Temple Story. The audacity of this Jesus dude to come rip up our temple then apply these Psalms to Himself. That was reason I used that.






    Manny
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    09 Sep '09 16:491 edit
    Originally posted by menace71
    Philippians 2:6 (NASB)
    who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)
    Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (King James Version)
    6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Manny
    how does this read that Christ was equal with God? it says that he existed in Gods form, or that he was a divine being, a spiritual entity. It states quite the opposite, that Christ never even considered himself, to be equal with God.You cannot impose the theology upon the scripture Manny, it is the other way around, the scripture forms our theology!
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    09 Sep '09 17:211 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    how does this read that Christ was equal with God? it says that he existed in Gods form, or that he was a divine being, a spiritual entity. It states quite the opposite, that Christ never even considered himself, to be equal with God.You cannot impose the theology upon the scripture Manny, it is the other way around, the scripture forms our theology!
    I agree Robbie. This is not some foreign language here. It's very simple and cleary says just the opposite of what he thinks it says. How can that be? The only thing I know is he wants to believe it so bad that he's just not reading it the way it is.
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    09 Sep '09 17:34
    Originally posted by menace71
    Philippians 2:6 (NASB)
    who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)
    Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped

    Philippians 2:6 (King James Version)
    6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ...[text shortened]... Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Manny
    This is really, really, really tiresome. I don't know why you don't solve this argument the old fashion way: raise an army and commit genocide - it has worked before! And just as all the other times you can rest assured that the non-trinitarians will be too busy modeling lingerie in front of the nearest mirror to actually organize and respond to the threat. They'll fall like ripe wheat before the might scythe of your army! Be a man like your church fathers and kill for your beliefs - if they are important enough to kill for.
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    09 Sep '09 18:11
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    This is really, really, really tiresome. I don't know why you don't solve this argument the old fashion way: raise an army and commit genocide - it has worked before! And just as all the other times you can rest assured that the non-trinitarians will be too busy modeling lingerie in front of the nearest mirror to actually organize and respond to the thr ...[text shortened]... ike your church fathers and kill for your beliefs - if they are important enough to kill for.
    Paint guns would be fun.....
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    09 Sep '09 19:422 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Paint guns would be fun.....
    I don't think your fun enters into it. Ask these guys:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism

    It is not too much fun when an army shows up at your house prepared to burn it down and kill all your children. I wish you would ALL ask yourself that question: can you live with other people having beliefs different than yours or are you prepared to kill their children? All your arguing about that silly book does is highlight the fact that none of you can agree in the slightest about what it means so why go on and on about it? When my dogs get bored they run off with the ball in their mouth. I want to run off with this topic. (Tho I'm sure many here will continue to chase it.)
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    09 Sep '09 19:46
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    I don't think your fun enters into it. Ask these guys:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism

    It is not too much fun when an army shows up at your house prepared to burn it down and kill all your children. I wish you would ALL ask yourself that question: can you live with other people having beliefs different than yours or are you prepared to kil ...[text shortened]... mouth. I want to run off with this topic. (Tho I'm sure many here will continue to chase it.)
    bickering on the interwebz is fun
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