UnChristian Christians

Originally posted by twhitehead
In another thread Zahlanzi said this:
[b]it can be argued that those are not christians. it isn't sufficient to say "i believe in Christ" to be a christian. one has to act like it as well.
and it got me thinking:
1. Are all Christians perfect in their behavior? Or can it be argued that there is nobody who fully 'acts like a Christian'?
2. What amo ...[text shortened]... ristian manner but is not doing so due to some miss-understanding, is he not a Christian?[/b]

I think I can answer all your questions this way: CHRISTIANS ARE NOT PERFECT. JUST FORGIVEN. Does this clear things up a bit?
😏

Originally posted by kirksey957
Please! Don't ruin my weekend with your flattery. Plus, I voted for Obama. What good Christian would do such a thing?

They say politics and religion don't mix.

But, I think one's political views are shaped by one's theology.

Are you saying you're a bad Christian because you voted for Obama?

I owe much of my confidence in the truth of the Gospel to the consistent and high standard of moral behavior of Christians who taught me.

I am filled with encouragement to know that there are so many such believers in Jesus on the earth who live by the highest standard of morality.

Originally posted by jaywill
I owe much of my confidence in the truth of the Gospel to the consistent and high standard of moral behavior of Christians who taught me.

I am filled with encouragement to know that there are so many such believers in Jesus on the earth who live by the highest standard of morality.

Aint' it the truth!

But still there are those who have the misguilded idea that Christians are to blame for the majority of the worlds ills.

The fact is, there are far to few Christians in the world for them to have that kind of influence.

The real trouble makers are those that lack any moral convictions at all. They are the ones causing the worlds problems. Even if some of them do call themselves Christian.

Originally posted by Badwater
[b]Christians have been arguing about who is one and who isn't, what they believe, how they believe, what writings to believe, and who runs the place, since Jesus died. There is no new pattern here.

Case in point.[/b]

" UnChristian Christians "

The name of the this thread speaks volumes, it does imply there is
a standard for Christians. I want to know what that is supposed to be
since a non-Christian seems to have a clue how all Christians are
suppose to act, he must have an idea what defines Christians. If he
does indeed have a clue on the type of actions real Christian are
suppose to act like he should also know what one is, it only follows.

If again a Christian is only someone who claims to be one, what kind
of standard of behavior automatically follows that type of person, if
there is more to it, lets here about that.
Kelly

Originally posted by josephw
Even if some of them do call themselves Christian.

The vast majority of responders to my initial post implied that behavior could not be used to judge whether a person is Christian. Yet here you strongly imply that certain behavior definitely rules out some people from being Christian and even if they claim to be Christian they are not. Am I correct that that is your belief?

Originally posted by jaywill
I owe much of my confidence in the truth of the Gospel to the consistent and high standard of moral behavior of Christians who taught me.

I am filled with encouragement to know that there are so many such believers in Jesus on the earth who live by the highest standard of morality.

I can never trust people who say, as a group: "We are better than others!".
The Nazis said that in Germany. Haven't we learned anything since then?

Originally posted by KellyJay
" UnChristian Christians "

The name of the this thread speaks volumes, it does imply there is
a standard for Christians. I want to know what that is supposed to be
since a non-Christian seems to have a clue how all Christians are
suppose to act, he must have an idea what defines Christians. If he
does indeed have a clue on the type of actions real Ch ...[text shortened]... tomatically follows that type of person, if
there is more to it, lets here about that.
Kelly

It was my understanding based on comments from people claiming to be Christian that a Christian should behave in such a manner as is compatible with Jesus' teachings. Obviously that could be disputed, and so could the actual behavior in question.
To a large extent I tend to think of Christian behavior as that behavior that is commonly preached as being 'correct' by Christians. Obviously that too is subject to much variation and frequently differs from the actual practices of those Christians.

So my questions to you is:
Do you have standards of behavior that you believe Christians should meet?
If someone does not meet those standards then do you declare them to be not true Christians?
Is there any behavior that would lead you to believe that someone is not a true Christian?

Originally posted by twhitehead
It was my understanding based on comments from people claiming to be Christian that a Christian should behave in such a manner as is compatible with Jesus' teachings. Obviously that could be disputed, and so could the actual behavior in question.
To a large extent I tend to think of Christian behavior as that behavior that is commonly preached as being ' ...[text shortened]... ?
Is there any behavior that would lead you to believe that someone is not a true Christian?

Yes I do have standards I think should be met, but not because
I claim to be a Christian, standards are standards period. Are you
suggesting that actions alone make one a Christian? I am still waiting
to hear from you what you think makes someone a Christian. Not
what I think, but you personally, twhitehead.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes I do have standards I think should be met, but not because
I claim to be a Christian, standards are standards period.

So if someone does not live up to those standards do you think that they are not Christian?

Are you suggesting that actions alone make one a Christian?
Not at all. I was merely asking whether actions can determine that someone is not a Christian. I do not think that anyone has yet asserted that that is the case.

I am still waiting to hear from you what you think makes someone a Christian. Not
what I think, but you personally, twhitehead.
Kelly
You mean how I use the word "Christian"? In general every day language I use it to mean anyone claiming to be Christian. In this thread however the original comment from Zahlanzi makes it clear that we are talking about 'true Christians' in other words that group of people that a particular person claiming to be Christian determines to be genuine Christians. Zahlanzi was suggesting that some Christians would denounce as non-Christian others that did not meet certain standards of behavior. I am trying to determine whether anyone here would do that, and what line of reasoning they would use in doing so.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I can never trust people who say, as a group: "We are better than others!".
The Nazis said that in Germany. Haven't we learned anything since then?

======================================
I can never trust people who say, as a group: "We are better than others!".
The Nazis said that in Germany. Haven't we learned anything since then?
===================================

Sure. A few things I have learned:

1.) It is one thing to stand up and saty "We are better than others."

It is another thing to say "We endevour to do our utmost according to our belief."

2.) Fear of being suspicioned of having an attitutde of being "better than others" should not be an excuse not to follow the teachings of Christ, teachings which portray the highest standard of morality.

3.) The credit for doing well is not with the Christian really. It lies with the indwelling Spirit of Jesus Christ who empowers us to live in oneness with Christ.

In ourselves as Christians we are just sinners saved by grace and nothing more.

4.) Jesus Christ is commited to securing a people who live the highest standard of morality. It is His commitment and promise to complete in His people what He has started. We excercise our faith and ask Him to carry through with what He has assured us He can do.

As disciples we should not wait around for the world to follow. We become imitators of those who through faith and patience are inheriting the promises.

5.) Those who feel they cannot live in Christ should not complain. The New Testament teaches us "You have not because you ask not."

If we come opened in heart and asking Him to work in us to make us His disciples He will follow through to do it. Apathy and passivity can hold one back.

6.) Learning to walk in Christ is something like learning to cut hair. You have to practice. You will make some mistakes. Eventually though through practice you can learn to live the highest standard of morality by allowing Christ to reign in your heart.

7.) Ultimately your trust should not be in people. It should be in Christ and God alone. Is the Bible not candid about the possibility of failure here and there of Gods' saints?

8.) Jesus told me "Follow Me". What FabienFnas does is his business. My call is to follow the Lord Jesus. And my trust is in Him alone.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So if someone does not live up to those standards do you think that they are not Christian?

[b]Are you suggesting that actions alone make one a Christian?
Not at all. I was merely asking whether actions can determine that someone is not a Christian. I do not think that anyone has yet asserted that that is the case.

I am still waiting to hear ...[text shortened]... ne whether anyone here would do that, and what line of reasoning they would use in doing so.

i think that i have stated quite unconditionally that someone who does not practice the teachings of Christ in full consciousness of what they are cannot be described as a Christian regardless of their claims, for it is very simple that a Christian is simply someone who applies the teachings of Christ, is it not so? you stated earlier that you found it surprising that there was a point to someones religion, and this is exactly it, that we have seen in Christ the utmost qualities of excellence imaginable. for example bravery in the face of extreme adversity, fairness and a sense of justice tempered with mercy, honesty and lack of deceit, empathy for those suffering, merciful acts (mercy is an active quality which needs to be expressed in action), a self sacrificing spirit and an attitude of giving and so the list goes on. it is this appeal which the Christian tries to emulate to the best of his ability, based on his knowledge of Christs teachings that may determine whether he is a christian or not, for to be sure, others also may possess and display these qualities naturally, but the role of ones religion should be to bring them to the fore in even greater measure for the benefit of not only the recipient but others as well, this is what makes Christianity so special.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I can never trust people who say, as a group: "We are better than others!".
The Nazis said that in Germany. Haven't we learned anything since then?

If we do what we consider 'right' because we believe it makes us better, then surely if we observe others not doing what we consider 'right' and we strive to do what we consider 'right' then we should logically conclude that we are better than them. Whether we should announce it to the world is another matter.
But your statement is not much different from people who criticize others for claiming that they are right and others are wrong, but whether we say it or not most of us believe that to be the case for some things. My objection tends to be how you go about stating that claim and whether or not you are willing to listen to the other parties point of view.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The vast majority of responders to my initial post implied that behavior could not be used to judge whether a person is Christian. Yet here you strongly imply that certain behavior definitely rules out some people from being Christian and even if they claim to be Christian they are not. Am I correct that that is your belief?

Just as I'm sure you know scientist that call themselves scientists but really aren't.

In a way it's relative, and convoluted. The same principle applies.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So if someone does not live up to those standards do you think that they are not Christian?

[b]Are you suggesting that actions alone make one a Christian?
Not at all. I was merely asking whether actions can determine that someone is not a Christian. I do not think that anyone has yet asserted that that is the case.

I am still waiting to hear ne whether anyone here would do that, and what line of reasoning they would use in doing so.

[/b]Well if Christian is just a term anyone at any time can throw on
themselves by your definition you should see every type of action
or beliefs known to man come from them, since all it takes is a
statement of "I am a Christian" to make someone a Christian.
You are now just indulging into some of the common people who
make the claim and have views, but like you have said that could
just be anyone with no special attachments about them so they
can say and do anything. If there is something else to it, you either
do not have a clue or did not hint there was more to it.
Kelly