Originally posted by twhitehead
I was not complaining. I was asking whether Christians feel that way about other 'Christians'. My question is if someone is not acting the way you as a Christian think Christians should act then would you declare them to be non-Christian?
[b]It only becomes important if there is a bottom line in what is in fact
a Christian.
Kelly
Not so at all. The question is perfectly valid and important without any absolutes involved.[/b]
Twhitehead,
I have not read every post in this thread. But to your persistence in making the issue "Who and who not is a
"Christian" ANYWAY ??" I propose this answer:
I would no fall for the bait of miticulously and exhaustively listing every Christian on the planet so you can know whose who. I would not take this bait.
Being an atheist you of course only care, if at all, about what is the opinion of Christians. You exclude God's view of things from your reasoning.
For me as a Christian, I do not only consider the matter from the human viewpoint, even if from a Christian's viewpoint. I have to consider also seeing the matter through God's eyes and through Christ's eyes.
Having said that I would direct you to the second and third chapter of Revelation. And notice in those two particular chapters the repetition of this phrase :
"He who overcomes ...." or
"To him who overcomes ...".
The audience is all Christians.
The human concept is the to be a "Christian" is to in some sense have
"arrived". That view has some merit. From that standpoint of the sinner's need to be
saved from eternal punishment, to have been regenerated into a Christian is to have had
THAT particular need met.
But that is not the only need that has to be met. God has a need for Christians to be
overcoming and not
defeated. God needs a testimony -
"the testimony of Jesus" which is participated in by those who
"overcome". We may call them
overcomers yet that word is not in the Bible. The closest phrase I can think of to it is
"more than conquers" (Romans 8:37)
In the letters to the seven churches there is the ending phrase to each letter -
"To him who overcomes...." meaning to the Christian who through grace, is not defeated but overcomes some particular adverse situation, beit backslidding, corruption, persecution, lukewarmness, loss of the first love, too closeness with the corrupt world, mixture in evil things, mixture in demonic things, apostasy, hypocrisy, failure to finish things through, suffering .... etc. etc. etc.. all these matter are things which Christ grace can empower the cooperating believer to
overcome.
To recap, yes, from the human perspective we may only be concerned with "Whose a Christian and who isn't." That may address OUR need. But to see things more through the eyes of God it is a matter of who is a Christian who is overcoming.
I do not have a phone list for you or a website which enumerates throughout the world who are the Christians who are overcoming. My task is to overcome myself in Christ and help other believers to overcome.
So "Who is and who is not a Christian anyway?" is important. I don't say it is not. But some of us Christians do not exalt this issue to be above all others. We, looking from the viewpoint of Jesus, are also concerned with being an
"overcoming" Christian.
See Revelation 2:7; 2:11; 2:17; 2:26; 3:5; 3:12; 3:21