Using your predestination

Originally posted by JS357
You have eternal life so long as your belief is sufficiently correct, sincere, and freely chosen, or so this forum's Christians seem to think.

Not a sufficiently accurate statement.

Originally posted by divegeester
Meanwhile back in eternal hell Jesus the attorning lamb watches the carnage...

Meanwhile divegeester lives in a world of denial, mocking the truths of God's Word.

The prayer according to God's predestination is the prayer that will turn the age from the church age into the kingdom age.

When a critical mass of believers begin to petition God that He perform His will according to His promises, the throne of God will react.

I will demonstrate this after I return from an errand. But first I would indicate that God commands this of His people. That is to command Him concerning His revealed will and the work of His hands concerning His sons.

"Thus says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel and the One who formed him,

ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons,

And concerning the work of My hands, command Me." (Isaiah 45:11)

God is saying, "You know what My will is. Ask of Me concerning its fulfillment. And even COMMAND ME concerning My revealed plan. "

This is a mighty corporate using of our predestination too.

Originally posted by sonship
The prayer according to God's predestination is the prayer that will turn the age from the church age into the kingdom age.

When a critical mass of believers begin to petition God that He perform His will according to His promises, the throne of God will react.

I will demonstrate this after I return from an errand. But first I would indicate th ...[text shortened]... ] concerning My revealed plan. "

This is a mighty corporate using of our predestination too.

I looked up this commentary by Matthew Henry because I've heard of this teaching about "commanding" God before. I question the interpretation you appear to be implying, but the context doesn't seem to support it.

Isaiah 45:11-19
"The people of God in captivity, who reconciled themselves to the will of God in their affliction and were content to wait his time for their deliverance, are here assured that they should not wait in vain.
I. They are invited to enquire concerning the issue of their troubles, v. 11. The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, though he does not allow them to strive with him, yet encourages them,
1. To consult his word: "Ask of me things to come; have recourse to the prophets and their prophecies, and see what they say concerning these things. Ask the watchmen, What of the night? Ask them, How long?' Things to come, as far as they are revealed, belong to us and to our children, and we must not be strangers to them.
2. To seek unto him by prayer: "Concerning my sons and concerning the work of my hands, which as becomes them submit to the will of their Father, the will of their potter, command you me, not by way of prescription, but by way of petition. Be earnest in your requests, and confident in your expectations, as far as both are guided by and grounded upon the promise.' We may not strive with our Maker by passionate complaints, but we may wrestle with him by faithful and fervent prayer. My sons, and the work of my hands, commend to me (so some read it), bring them to me and leave them with me. See the power of prayer, and its prevalency with God: Thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am; what would you that I should do unto you? Some read it with an interrogation, as carrying on the reproof (v. 9, 10): Do you question me concerning things to come? and am I bound to give you an account? And concerning my children, even concerning the work of my hands, will you command me, or prescribe to me? Dare you do so? Shall any teach God knowledge, or give law to him? Those that complain of God do in effect assume an authority over him."

Verse 9 says, "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!" I think the word "command" in verse 11, based on the surrounding context, has as its meaning a petition rather than the idea that we can tell God what to do. We can make our request know to God, but to assume we have an authority over God that allows us to "command" God is over the top. God is sovereign and omniscient, and in no way does He need our input to accomplish His will.

Even Jesus, who most certainly knew more about God's will and purposes than anyone, didn't presume to do his own will, but did what was commanded of him by the Father.

If predestiny, then I needn't try to strive toward goals anymore. Maybe I will anyway, but that's not up to me.

Originally posted by apathist
If predestiny, then I needn't try to strive toward goals anymore. Maybe I will anyway, but that's not up to me.

That's not what predestination means. You have free will and you know it. One way or the other, it's your choice.

It's simple logic. God hasn't "selected" some to salvation and others to damnation. That idea defies reason, and you know it. It would make God unjust if He condemned someone when they had no choice.

If it were true then you may as well just give it up and die. See how illogical that is?

Originally posted by chaney3
It seems you are saying that Jesus died for our sins.....but with a 'catch'....you must believe that He did it.

For such a supreme sacrifice, could it be possible that ALL benefit? Regardless of belief?

It seems that God would not be so petty to demand we believe something that happened 2,000 years ago, or be damned to hell.

You are right to question the idea of Jesus being an atoning sacrifice.

Just as Jesus did not claim to be God while He walked the Earth, Jesus did not claim to be an atoning sacrifice while He walked the Earth. Attempts to show otherwise are dubious at best and are inconsistent with the words Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth.

The concept seems nonsensical because it IS nonsensical.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You are right to question the idea of Jesus being an atoning sacrifice.

Just as Jesus did not claim to be God while He walked the Earth, Jesus did not claim to be an atoning sacrifice while He walked the Earth. Attempts to show otherwise are dubious at best and are inconsistent with the words of Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth.

Well, well, well, ThinkOfnothing, you just beat divegeester at posting the most ignorant thing I've ever heard in these forums. Congratulations.

Originally posted by josephw
Well, well, well, ThinkOfnothing, you just beat divegeester at posting the most ignorant thing I've ever heard in these forums. Congratulations.

An assertion devoid of substance from josephw. At least you're consistent

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
An assertion devoid of substance from josephw. At least you're consistent

"You are right to question the idea of Jesus being an atoning sacrifice."

Just try substantiating that lying garbage.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"You are right to question the idea of Jesus being an atoning sacrifice."

Just try substantiating that lying garbage.[/b]

Just as Jesus did not claim to be God while He walked the Earth, Jesus did not claim to be an atoning sacrifice while He walked the Earth. Attempts to show otherwise are dubious at best and are inconsistent with the words Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Just as Jesus did not claim to be God while He walked the Earth, Jesus did not claim to be an atoning sacrifice while He walked the Earth. Attempts to show otherwise are dubious at best and are inconsistent with the words of Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth.

You are basing this 'truth' on what is written in the Bible. If so, is the entire Bible true or only the few words that you choose to believe?

Originally posted by josephw
Not a sufficiently accurate statement.

What's lacking?

Originally posted by josephw
You're not right. Just look up every passage where "in Christ" appears and then see if it's not all positive for the believer.

For those who are not found to be "in Christ" all is a negative. They face judgement and a Christ-less eternity.

This is true and substantiated by God's Word.

We're not talking about believers. Sonship says that torturing people for eternity is "perfect justice" then hides behind platitudes about "everything with Jesus is perfect".

His and your version of god is monstrous torturing despot. Jesus will be in hell with his angels spectacting the flesh melt carnage - you do believe this stuff don't do think these scriptures are literal don't you?

But hey, you'll be in the fields playing with the lambs and baby tigers while all this is going on downstairs so it's all perfect for the believers right!

Originally posted by josephw
That's a direct contradiction of what the Word of God teaches.

Salvation is for all, but eternal life is given to those who believe.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:

God's righteousness is by faith of Jesus Christ [b]unto all, but upon all who believe.

If one doesn't believe they are not saved. That's a clear Biblical truth.[/b]

No it is isn't.
Christ died "once and for all" Romans 6:10.
All sin was atoned for. Prove otherwise with scripture please.