Value

Originally posted by telerion
Joe was probably stunned because he just realized his "friend" was a wacko fundie. He was probably pondering whether or not to say, "Don't ever call me again."

There is nothing in the conversation itself that implies the friend has any religious beliefs whatsoever. Take the blinkers off.

It's a fair question. It's always interested me how an atheist chooses to value people. What's the motivation - relationships? Mutual benefit?

While I appreciate (as always) the points that bbarr has been making at a philosophical level, I'm more interested in the practical aspects. And in particular the valuing of people who we have no obvious reason to value.

Now, let me emphasise before anyone else does that Christians aren't really better than anyone else at valuing those outside our own immediate sphere. But occasionally some of us manage it, and we have a basis to, however philosophically wobbly - we are called to value everyone because God values everyone.

What reason does an atheist have to move out of their own sphere and do aid work halfway around the world?

Originally posted by orfeo
What reason does an atheist have to move out of their own sphere and do aid work halfway around the world?

Compassion.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Compassion.

Expand.

Originally posted by orfeo
Expand.

Compassion, born of empathy, is one reason anyone might want to help others. Surely you don't need an explanation of what compassion is or why it might drive altruism.

There are myriad other possible reasons someone might want to help others. I could imagine a person driven to help others from a sense of horror at their poor development and the consequent public health hazard that might ensue. However, I believe the root motive for helping others is compassion.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Compassion, born of empathy, is one reason anyone might want to help others. Surely you don't need an explanation of what compassion is or why it might drive altruism.

There are myriad other possible reasons someone might want to help others. I could imagine a person driven to help others from a sense of horror at their poor development and the co ...[text shortened]... th hazard that might ensue. However, I believe the root motive for helping others is compassion.

Okay, fair enough.

When you say "born of empathy"... this is what I'm a bit curious about. Empathy implies identification: 'this could be me'. But in fact there are many situations where it seems pretty clear that this COULDN'T be me. And that's what interests me.

Or are you saying that simply being another human being is enough to identify?

Of course, the level of empathy we're capable of varies enormously. There are people out there who don't give a damn about people in their own community let alone halfway around the world. But that's a whole different topic.

Originally posted by orfeo
Or are you saying that simply being another human being is enough to identify?

It's enough. Some imagination may be required.

"But in fact there are many situations where it seems pretty clear that this COULDN'T be me. And that's what interests me."

Now you expand.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's enough. Some imagination may be required.

"But in fact there are many situations where it seems pretty clear that this COULDN'T be me. And that's what interests me."

Now you expand.

It seems most unlikely that I will ever be a member of an oppressed racial minority. Or of an oppressed gender.

The odds of my home being destroyed by an earthquake are insanely small as I live on the least geologically active continent. That's including tsunamis, as I'm 600 metres above sea level.

Cyclones/hurricanes don't come here either.

Originally posted by orfeo
It seems most unlikely that I will ever be a member of an oppressed racial minority. Or of an oppressed gender.

You can imagine yourself in those situations, surely? If you're capable of empathy for one person, you can feel empathy for 'em all. Provided you have the imagination.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You can imagine yourself in those situations, surely? If you're capable of empathy for one person, you can feel empathy for 'em all. Provided you have the imagination.

So you are saying that the Golden Rule is a standard to which man is naturally inclined to?

Originally posted by Halitose
So you are saying that the Golden Rule is a standard to which man is naturally inclined to?

I merely claim that atheists are capable of being as compassionate as anyone else.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I merely claim that atheists are capable of being as compassionate as anyone else.

Capable, yes. I wont deny you that. Actually getting out of your comfort zone and doing something about your feelings is another matter entirely.

Originally posted by Halitose
Actually getting out of your comfort zone and doing something about your feelings is another matter entirely.

Well of course. Same applies to everyone doesn't it?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Well of course. Same applies to everyone doesn't it?

No. I'm sure there are religious people who would contend that it isn't merely compassion that gets you from your easy-chair.

Originally posted by Halitose
No. I'm sure there are religious people who would contend that it isn't merely compassion that gets you from your easy-chair.

What else would it take?

Quit prancing around on your moral high ground in the meantime.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
What else would it take?

Quit prancing around on your moral high ground in the meantime.

Quit prancing around on your moral high ground in the meantime.

Huh??? 😕

What else would it take?

Jam 1:27 Pure religion... is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction...

The Golden Rule could also be alluded to here.