-Removed-And Kelly is countering this with "homogenised and stereotyped generalisations" about the cult/denomination. He/she - as has been the case in some debates about capitalism and free markets on another forum - seems to like to argue that 'a bad example of something is not an example of that thing'. And so the ugly reality of something is unhooked from the ideal, just like that. I have had four major brushes with pentacostalism in my life - all horrid, like this one is, albeit with different details and circumstances. The "good" examples pentacostalism I have come across have not disturbed others too much and what goes on in their heads is their business. Are we to say that pentcostalism that doesn't disturb others is real pentacostalism, and that pentacostalism that causes harm is not real pentacostalism? Is that how problems with how people with certain beliefs treat others can be airbrushed out of existence? With inept analogies about people watching TV? 😀
Originally posted by FMFAgain, how does that relate to Pentecostalism? What specifically is it that
She is a pentacostal. She attributes all her decisions to what she describes as her direct personal experience of God through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. She cites the will of God, the will of Jesus and the will of the Holy Spirit at all times. She did not do this when she was a Catholic.
Her embrace of pentacostalism has, in her mind and in her deeds, e ...[text shortened]... als are the same. Is this your only line of defence for this particular pentacostal person?
she is doing directly comes from being a Pentecostal? I've been asking that
over and over and yet you seem to shirk answering it! Being a Pentecostal
Baptist is different than being a non-Pentecostal Baptist so what exactly is
it about being a Pentecostal that is causing her to behave this way? You
have claimed over an over to have some experience in this, so can I except
an answer some time soon?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI have answered you more than once. Please read my posts again.
Again, how does that relate to Pentecostalism? What specifically is it that she is doing directly comes from being a Pentecostal? I've been asking that over and over and yet you seem to shirk answering it!
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-Removed-Then why doesn't Kelly mount some kind of defence of the pentacostalism he/she likes and approves of?
In my OP I asked: "Presumably no one here is going to defend Pentacostalism, right?"
Clearly this was slightly tongue in cheek, in an effort to stimulate a debate. And yet Kelly hasn't defended pentacostalism - except in as much as he/she has tried to deny that the woman in my story is a 'real' pentacostal - and to be strangely impervious to the fact that her actions and words are clearly rooted in her pentacostalism.
That's not a defence. It's a kind of evasion.
My hope in starting this debate was to provoke knowledgeable people into framing pentacostalism in a positive way so that I could perhaps better understand the predicament that my friends are in.
Instead, all I have got from some - to a degree, anyway - is a kind of denial.
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Originally posted by FMFWell its kinda like defending Catholism or Evangelicals etc. You have the good, bad, and ugly within each of them. Then what you wind up trying to defend are screw balls like the lady you identified. Then once you identify them you then assume that they are representative of the rest of them. It reminds me of when Michael Jackson converted to being a JW. I then asked someone who was a JW about the conversion and they denied that he was actually a "true JW". After all, who would want to claim him even if he really was one at one time. I think now he converted to Islam.
Then why doesn't Kelly mount some kind of defence of the pentacostalism he/she likes and approves of?
In my OP I asked: "Presumably no one here is going to defend Pentacostalism, right?"
Clearly this was slightly tongue in cheek, in an effort to stimulate a debate. And yet Kelly hasn't defended pentacostalism - except in as much as he/she has tried to deny re in.
Instead, all I have got from some - to a degree, anyway - is a kind of denial.
Originally posted by whodeyMore evasion. My question is very straight forward. Why can't I get a straight forward answer? 😀
Well its kinda like defending Catholism or Evangelicals etc. You have the good, bad, and ugly within each of them. Then what you wind up trying to defend are screw balls like the lady you identified. Then once you identify them you then assume that they are representative of the rest of them. It reminds me of when Michael Jackson converted to being a JW. ...[text shortened]... d want to claim him even if he really was one at one time. I think now he converted to Islam.
-Removed-Well in the context of the suffering going on here, I don't think the disapproval of "divegeester" ranks very high. Sorry about that. RHP can make people feel a little more important than they really are, that's clear. Me inclided from time to time. No one has come forward to defend pentacostalism. There's only denial. And obfuscation. And now - with you - an attempt to turn it back on me: I am demeaning the real people involved with my er... "ranting". Sorry to have upset you. Perhaps that is the real cost: the discomfort this has caused you and Kelly. Stuff here in Yogya pales in the face of your distaste. "Isolated incident"? Oh nice, case dismissed. You characterize what I have said as a comprehensive condemnation of Pentecostalism: and yet I have never claimed anything of the sort. I have just asked for a defence of this cultish denomination. Yours is yet another post trying to diffuse this whole thing by either blaming the victims, discreditting the messenger (me) or just plain blah blah blah while the original question I posed in the OP goes unanswered.
Originally posted by KellyJaySo you *are* infact a Pentacostal Cultist? Oh, that explains a lot about your stubbornness, your ignorance, your unableness to grasp science, your... for short: you!
Again, how does that relate to Pentecostalism? What specifically is it that she is doing directly comes from being a Pentecostal?
I thought pretty well of Pentacostal before, if you except the wierd ones, but if you see yourself as a representatist of the Pentacostal Cultists, then I have to rethink my opinion of them, sorry, your friends in the Cult.
-Removed-The penny has dropped! 🙂
I have never disguised the fact.
Indeed, my OP asks: Presumably no one here is going to defend Pentacostalism, right?
Couldn't be clearer.
And nobody has taken it upon themselves to defend it. Instead they have been trying to say things like 'the woman in the story is not a pentacostal' or 'what's her exit from the Catholic Church, her new direct relationship with God, her ecstatic fervour, and speaking in tongues, got to do with pentacostalism?'
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-Removed-"Presumably no one here is going to defend Pentacostalism, right?" is not a trick question. What are you on about?
It is an excellent denomination of the Christian church. I have known literally hundreds of people who have had their lives wonderfully transformed by an experience with Jesus whilst being in this movement and i have seen no harm whatsoever in people expressing themselves spiritually through various manifestations of Pentecostal behaviour such as speaking in tongues etc.
It sounds completely ghastly - not to mention sad - that people's lives might have come to this. The "speaking in tongues" thing in particular is woeful. Utterly woeful.
But I am in favour of freedom of speech, action and thought.