1. Standard membertelerion
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    05 Apr '06 02:59
    . . . a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell -- mouths mercy and invented hell -- mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!...

    http://reader.homestead.com/mysterious.html

    All these times I've spent many threads and many more posts addressing these absurdities of the xian god and, with one paragraph, that old coot summed them all up better than I ever could!

    The link leads to a chapter of Twain's "The Mysterious Stranger." I have "The Bible According to Mark Twain" but have never taken the time to sit down and read it all. What a brilliant writer!

    Anyway, it brought a smile to my face, and so I thought I would share.
  2. Joined
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    05 Apr '06 03:531 edit
    Originally posted by telerion
    . . . a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painles liant writer!

    Anyway, it brought a smile to my face, and so I thought I would share.
    Yeah, Twain is a good read. Much of his work serves as an efficient BS filter.

    "Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to Him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea."

    http://atheisme.free.fr/Quotes/Twain.htm
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    05 Apr '06 03:53
    Smiling here too.
  4. Donationbbarr
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    05 Apr '06 04:13
    Letters from Earth is still an amazing read. It is Twain at his finest, really.

    This is from the letter Satan, visiting Earth, writes back to Gabriel and Michael:

    "The best minds will tell you that when a man has begotten a child he is morally bound to tenderly care for it, protect it from hurt, shield it from disease, clothe it, feed it, bear with its waywardness, lay no hand upon it save in kindness and for its own good, and never in any case inflict upon it a wanton cruelty. God's treatment of his earthly children, every day and every night, is the exact opposite of all that, yet those best minds warmly justify these crimes, condone them, excuse them, and indignantly refuse to regard them as crimes at all, when he commits them. Your country and mine is an interesting one, but there is nothing there that is half so interesting as the human mind."
  5. London
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    05 Apr '06 16:24
    Originally posted by telerion
    [i]. . . a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painles ...[text shortened]... liant writer!

    Anyway, it brought a smile to my face, and so I thought I would share.
    (You'll figure out which ones I'm responding to)

    1. Ever hear of free will?
    2. Who says no one's happy?
    3. Human existence doesn't end with death.
    4. Who says angels are capable of happiness as humans are?
    5. At least human beings have a body.
    6. Who says God invented Hell?
    7. Who says God doesn't have morals?
    8. Does Mark Twain always hold the father responsible for the son's crimes?

    The usual litany.
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    05 Apr '06 16:48
    Originally posted by lucifershammer

    7. Who says God doesn't have morals?
    The kids who got mauled by the bear would, if they had been allowed to mature enough to contemplate morality.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    05 Apr '06 16:52
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    The kids who got mauled by the bear would, if they had been allowed to mature enough to contemplate morality.
    As would the Midianite babies who got their throats slit.
  8. London
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    05 Apr '06 17:10
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    The kids who got mauled by the bear would, if they had been allowed to mature enough to contemplate morality.
    If they can contemplate morality to the extent needed to judge God, what makes you think they would conclude He doesn't have morals?
  9. London
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    05 Apr '06 17:10
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    As would the Midianite babies who got their throats slit.
    See above.
  10. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    05 Apr '06 17:14
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    If they can contemplate morality to the extent needed to judge God, what makes you think they would conclude He doesn't have morals?
    It's just a hunch, based on God sending a bear to maul a bunch of kids for acting like kids.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    05 Apr '06 17:18
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    See above.
    Just a hunch based on how most people feel about the morality of those that order babies' throats to be cut.
  12. London
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    05 Apr '06 17:20
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    It's just a hunch, based on God sending a bear to maul a bunch of kids for acting like kids.
    Assuming:

    1. That the events actually occurred.
    2. That God actually 'sent' the bear.
    3. That the "kids" were not adults (IIRC, the Hebrew word used there is used to refer to thirty-odd year-old men as well in the OT)

    Long debates have been made on these verses in the past - can't you come up with some new ones?
  13. London
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    05 Apr '06 17:21
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Just a hunch based on how most people feel about the morality of those that order babies' throats to be cut.
    See (1) and (2) above. And the note.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    05 Apr '06 17:26
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    See (1) and (2) above. And the note.
    If you want to concede that the entire OT is an unreliable account of probably fictitious events, then simply say so. If your God would write some new material, we could go into that; maybe you could send him a note.
  15. London
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    05 Apr '06 17:291 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    If you want to concede that the entire OT is an unreliable account of probably fictitious events, then simply say so.
    I didn't say that about the entire OT. Most of the Pentateuch and the Samuel/Kings/Chronicles books, however, probably are.
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