1. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 13:41
    Debates is becoming boring. It's now basically a 33-33-33 split between;

    - Right wingers blasting government and Hillary Clinton and various minority groups
    - Left wingers blasting the Republican presidential candidates, especially Trump
    - Duchess64 and a cadre that includes normbenign, Eladar and a few others recycling and trading the same insults over and over again. In fact, it's practically axiomatic at this point that every thread that survives long enough will, sooner or later, degenerate into a juvenile pissing contest.

    Really, ever since FMF left, Debates hasn't been the same. There was also another event that's hurt the Debates forum, but I'm too nice to mention it.

    Anyway, so I'm giving Spirituality a try.

    My position is that religion is all fine and good if it helps you to be better person and causes you to take responsibility for your own actions, but that the best religion is the one that you keep to yourself and not try to evangelize to others. As long as you concede that nobody else is bound by your beliefs and don't try to force anyone to adopt your beliefs, I respect your beliefs.

    The Oatmeal had a pretty good summary:

    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion

    What say you?
  2. Joined
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    30 Mar '16 13:43
    Have you met Dasa yet?
  3. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 13:45
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Have you met Dasa yet?
    I don't believe we've been formally introduced.
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    30 Mar '16 13:48
    Originally posted by sh76
    I don't believe we've been formally introduced.
    He is the one advocating the death of all Muslims and rape is ok if you are a vedic warrior.
  5. Cape Town
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    30 Mar '16 13:511 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    What say you?
    The majority of religions involve some sort of afterlife and a specific method for attaining said afterlife and usually being a member of the religion is helpful. So unless the religious person is selfish, they should try to evangelize others and anyone who doesn't is somewhat suspect.

    I would go so far as to say that the behaviour of several theists in this forum which could only possibly put people off wanting to learn about or join their religion is downright despicable. They either don't actually believe what they claim to believe or they want more space in heaven for themselves.

    Religious beliefs can be both beneficial and harmful to the believer as well as others that his beliefs affect. I personally think they are more harmful than beneficial in sum and so would like to reduce the amount of religiosity in the world. I do not believe in forcing people to change their beliefs but prefer the route of education and persuasion.
  6. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 13:511 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    He is the one advocating the death of all Muslims and rape is ok if you are a vedic warrior.
    And is it your position that a vedic warrior should have absolutely no additional perks by virtue of his selfless devotion to the defense of the Kshatriya elite?

    That would be an odd position to take.

    PS: FMF, how am I doing? 😉
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Mar '16 13:53
    Originally posted by sh76
    Debates is becoming boring. [...] Really, ever since FMF left, Debates hasn't been the same.
    Oh dear. I'd say ~ for a few people here ~ your card is marked for mentioning me in this way in your self-welcome! Thanks though. And welcome. 🙂
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Mar '16 13:55
    Originally posted by sh76
    PS: FMF, how am I doing? 😉
    Oh good Lord! You've mentioned me AGAIN. You're going to be like one of those crew members in red shirts in episodes of the original Star Trek.
  9. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 13:56
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The majority of religions involve some sort of afterlife and a specific method for attaining said afterlife and usually being a member of the religion is helpful. So unless the religious person is selfish, they should try to evangelize others and anyone who doesn't is somewhat suspect.
    Well, I guess I'm used to the Jewish idea that non-Jews can attain the positive afterlife by being good people, whether they're Jewish or not and that there's no mission to convert outsiders to the faith.

    I guess it depends on how aggressive the evangelizing is. I don't have a problem with running TV commercials or websites about how awesome it is to be a member of XYZ religion. I would object to door-to-door harassment of people to join your religion, though.
  10. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 13:59
    Originally posted by FMF
    Oh good Lord! You've mentioned me AGAIN. You're going to be like one of those crew members in red shirts in episodes of the original Star Trek.
    If I am the red shirt, it will be over soon enough as I probably won't live long enough to be beamed back up.
  11. Joined
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    30 Mar '16 14:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    Left wingers blasting the Republican presidential candidates, especially Trump.....

    What say you?
    There are left-wingers in the debates forum? Where are they hiding?

    😲

    Welcome, BTW
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    30 Mar '16 14:19
    Originally posted by sh76
    Well, I guess I'm used to the Jewish idea that non-Jews can attain the positive afterlife by being good people, whether they're Jewish or not and that there's no mission to convert outsiders to the faith.

    I guess it depends on how aggressive the evangelizing is. I don't have a problem with running TV commercials or websites about how awesome it is to be a me ...[text shortened]... XYZ religion. I would object to door-to-door harassment of people to join your religion, though.
    I have learned to enjoy this door to door harassment from the JW. I live a 2 minute walk from a Kingdom Hall, so I get a visit like twice a month, but never the same people. What I have is a list of questions/statements that make them very uncomfortable. Like:

    - Do you know the founder of your religion Charles Russel was in court for fraud?
    - How many of these predictions made by the Watchtower actually comes to pass?
    - Do you know what Jesus says about false prophets?
    - What happened to BethShan .. never heard of that? Thats the house that you people built, about 50 years ago for the returning patriarchs .. Abraham, Issac, Jacob and the prophets. The house is empty to this day.
    - What about all these sex abuse cases that the JW elders are facing now?

    Its fun 😀
  13. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 14:19
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    There are left-wingers in the debates forum? Where are they hiding?

    😲

    Welcome, BTW
    Starts with a Z and rhymes with "Mahlanzi"
  14. Standard membersh76
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    30 Mar '16 14:201 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I have learned to enjoy this door to door harassment from the JW. I live a 2 minute walk from a Kingdom Hall, so I get a visit like twice a month, but never the same people. What I have is a list of questions/statements that make them very uncomfortable. Like:

    - Do you know the founder of your religion Charles Russel was in court for fraud?
    - How many of ...[text shortened]... s day.
    - What about all these sex abuse cases that the JW elders are facing now?

    Its fun 😀
    Learning all that stuff just to argue with the missionaries? No, thanks. I'd rather spend my time doing something productive like watching Breaking Bad reruns.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Mar '16 14:23
    Originally posted by sh76
    Anyway, so I'm giving Spirituality a try. My position is that religion is all fine and good if it helps you to be better person and causes you to take responsibility for your own actions, but that the best religion is the one that you keep to yourself and not try to evangelize to others.
    Some Christians here seem to behave like this is a Christianity Forum. Others seem to think there is no spirituality without theism. I say "Spirituality" is a word that we should not allow religionists to commandeer. This is because I don't think atheists should allow theists to apply the word only to themselves and their notions purely on account of the fact that they've used their spiritual nature and capacity for abstraction - something all humans possess - to construct elaborate ideologies and mythologies for themselves, that equate spirituality with things like immortality and supernatural beings who have supposedly communicated with them.

    I have never suggested to anyone here that they shed beliefs that they happen to hold and that I don't share ~ religion gives many people comfort, helps them to process the inevitability of death, and gives structure and meaning to their inner lives. But there are some here who behave as if disagreement and skepticism amount an effort to divest them of their beliefs. Some of the most strident religionists here sometimes behave as if their beliefs are actually quite brittle, or vulnerable in the face of scrutiny, or they haven't spent much time listening to what dissenters have actually been saying to them over the years. All in all, this bodes fairly well for a consistently high volume of posts on this forum.
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