What are you still doing here?

Originally posted by serigado
That is your belief, your model. I respect it, but it doesn't apply for me.
There's coercion because God is sending to Hell all who don't believe in him, FOREVER, without possible redemption. Isn't this coercive? I never talked about the cross being coercive.
Our possible choices of free will are: Follow God, or suffer eternal punishment... This is the good resume. Where's true love in here?

I would say that you choose God or choose to be seperated from God. If that is coersive then so be it.

Originally posted by whodey
I would say that you choose God or choose to be seperated from God. If that is coersive then so be it.

The consequences of the choice make the rules imposed by God coercive. If you choose to be separated from be, go to Hell. Do you feel you have other option besides serving God? I think not. No options. What does this indicate?

Originally posted by serigado
The consequences of the choice make the rules imposed by God coercive. If you choose to be separated from be, go to Hell. Do you feel you have other option besides serving God? I think not. No options. What does this indicate?

Your option is to have a loving relationship with him or not to have a loving relationship with him. In any loving relationship are elements of faith, service, etc. For example, Christ came to serve mankind and he humbled himself to do it. He even went so far as to die for us. Now we are free to recipricate and accept what he offers us. We either accept or reject what he has to offer. However, it just so happens that what he has to offer includes eternal life. If you reject what he has to offer then you are on your own. Violating your free will to reject him by forcing you to serve him is not in the interest of a loving God nor is it in the interest of a loving human being for that matter.

It just occured to me that we are consumed with choices that we have in terms of our own free will. However, what of God's will? If he is a God of love then it is his motive to eliminate suffering or eliminate sin which causes suffering. Should he eliminate his holy endevour to make his creation sinless one day to please you thus violating his free will to eliminate suffering? Come to think of it, it is remarkable that we have any choices at all. It's not like we created the universe or even our selves for that matter. In reality it is all God's yet he has chosen to let us decide for ourselves anyhow.

Originally posted by whodey
Your option is to have a loving relationship with him or not to have a loving relationship with him. In any loving relationship are elements of faith, service, etc. For example, Christ came to serve mankind and he humbled himself to do it. He even went so far as to die for us. Now we are free to recipricate and accept what he offers us. We either accept ...[text shortened]... matter. In reality it is all God's yet he has chosen to let us decide for ourselves anyhow.

I point a gun at your head and say "I love you. Serve me or be shot". And you think "this guy is great, he real loves me... Is giving me an option instead of shooting me straight in the head".
What God does is worse. Eternal punishment! THIS is coercive. Even if it is for a good cause.

All of this admitting God exists and the Bible is correct. Probably all this is a made up story. But I'm not even going that way.

Originally posted by serigado
I point a gun at your head and say "I love you. Serve me or be shot". And you think "this guy is great, he real loves me... Is giving me an option instead of shooting me straight in the head".
What God does is worse. Eternal punishment! THIS is coercive. Even if it is for a good cause.

All of this admitting God exists and the Bible is correct. Probably all this is a made up story. But I'm not even going that way.

Let me put it another way because you do not appear to see what I am trying to say. If God is good and God is loving then he will ONLY do what is best for us. Therefore, if we decide to forsake his warnings and stick our face in a fan, so to speak, then we are on our own. He cannot endorse such an act nor support such an act. He then withdraws himself after warning us. This is how I see the matter in terms of sinning or not sinning. However, if we decide to do things that are "good" for us then he can be an active participant because he loves us and wants what is best for us. This is why God requires faith. Placing ones faith in God gives God the "OK" to participate in doing "good" things for ourselves as we do what he tells us to do. This, of coarse, is assuming that God is all knowing and all loving. If so, there is no second guessing what he is telling us to do. However, to get to that place one must place their faith in him. Otherwise we will second guess him as either being not 100% loving or not 100% all knowing.

You cannot expect God to be an active participant in an activity if that acitivity is not deemed to be "good". It simply goes against his nature and you cannot expect him to violate his will just as he does not violate your own free will by forcing you to do the "right thing".

Originally posted by whodey
Let me put it another way because you do not appear to see what I am trying to say. If God is good and God is loving then he will ONLY do what is best for us. Therefore, if we decide to forsake his warnings and stick our face in a fan, so to speak, then we are on our own. He cannot endorse such an act nor support such an act. He then withdraws himself aft ...[text shortened]... just as he does not violate your own free will by forcing you to do the "right thing".

The point is HELL , and God playing an active part sending us there if we don't follow him!
We are not left on our own if he abandon God. We Go To Hell, forever, by God's decision. Even when the natural thing to do is not to believe in God. That's worse then forcing us to do right thing.