30 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaMy understanding was that the old testament laws applied only to Jews and therefore non-jewish Christians need not follow any of them but rather only follow Jesus' teachings. However many people on this site imply that even Jesus' teachings should not be taken as law and in some peoples view it is not even important to follow them at all but rather listen to Paul.
my question is very simple really... when Jesus died what parts of the law did He take from the old testament?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadthis is the way i think about what you have written.
My understanding was that the old testament laws applied only to Jews and therefore non-jewish Christians need not follow any of them but rather only follow Jesus' teachings. However many people on this site imply that even Jesus' teachings should not be taken as law and in some peoples view it is not even important to follow them at all but rather listen to Paul.
1) jewish and non-jewish have no difference if it is by blood. given time we all going to be one race, so it don't make sense.
2) Jesus's teachings as law? his teachings are about love most of all, but as law i'm not too sure.
some interesting things can happen when interpreting scriptures though like this. flee from the devil and he will flee from you. is it law or knowledge. under law it would mean to run, under knowledge it's advice.
3) the last i find hard to believe but are willing to listen what anyone has to say.
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaThe old testament makes it very clear and so do current jews that there is a difference between jews and non-jews and to some extent implies that the old testament laws only apply to jews.
this is the way i think about what you have written.
1) jewish and non-jewish have no difference if it is by blood. given time we all going to be one race, so it don't make sense.
...[text shortened]...
3) the last i find hard to believe but are willing to listen what anyone has to say.
Jesus did make some law-like statements, especially where he was asked about some of the ten commandments and he made stricter versions of them. The question is whether you think God expects you to follow Jesus' teachings at all times to the best of your ability or whether they are just guide lines to be overlooked at your convenience.
For example Jesus says you should not swear by anything but let your word be your bond. Yet many people are willing to swear upon the Bible.
The real question is why you do anything. Some appear to do things only for the purpose of getting into heaven and if this is guaranteed then live the rest of thier lives in whatever way makes them happy etc. Others do things because they feel it is right to do them (out of respect for God or otherwise) whether or not it affects thier chance of entering heaven. Even Jesus had dictated laws why should you follow them if Paul then says that all that is required to enter heaven is to have faith?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadlol. i'm going out to grab some tea. look forward to replying when i get back.
The old testament makes it very clear and so do current jews that there is a difference between jews and non-jews and to some extent implies that the old testament laws only apply to jews.
Jesus did make some law-like statements, especially where he was asked about some of the ten commandments and he made stricter versions of them. The question is whethe ...[text shortened]... d you follow them if Paul then says that all that is required to enter heaven is to have faith?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadthis thing with Jewish people makes absolutely no sense to me for fact i have many different bloods in me. if i was half Jewish would i follow half these laws, 1/4, 1/8. like what if i didn't know i was Jewish and lived my life according to what i knew... would it make a difference?
The old testament makes it very clear and so do current jews that there is a difference between jews and non-jews and to some extent implies that the old testament laws only apply to jews.
Jesus did make some law-like statements, especially where he was asked about some of the ten commandments and he made stricter versions of them. The question is whethe ...[text shortened]... d you follow them if Paul then says that all that is required to enter heaven is to have faith?
to the best of your ability following Jesus's teachings... for sure.
... when i was younger i was o.k. at cross-country/middle distance running. i could clean up most in my year and the next in the district. heaps of people looked up to me in a way. if running was what mattered in God's eyes then i would have failed as i hardly ever trained so i was never really at the best of my ability. maybe some of the one's who got last would win in God's eyes. my point is... judgment is not on one's perfection.
Jesus is all i have left. He is my life.
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaIf you study the gospels it is clear that Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament. He did not change God's laws, he was the perfection or completion of God's laws. The greatest commandment in the Old Testament was to love the Lord with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you do these things you will keep God's law without any effort. In fact, Jesus is referred to in the first chapter of John as God's word incarnate. In other words, Jesus was God's living word coming to life. Jesus was a fulfillment of God's word and prophesy in the Old Testament. What most people don't realize is that God's word is a living extension of himself and not a seperate entity or a nonliving entity. After all, it says in Genesis that God created using words.
my question is very simple really... when Jesus died what parts of the law did He take from the old testament?
As far as animal sacrifice goes, it is clear that God needs to atone for our sins in some way in order to "reconnect" with us. Blood sacrifice is the avenue for this atonement and is somewhat of a mystery. In some ways I think I understand. For example, sin brings about death. Sin is merely breaking God's law of love. Since God is the source of all life he is your source as well. If you sin you disconnect yourself from the source of life and will die. We all know that our life source is in our blood. Everything there is to know about you can be obtained from a blood sample. In effect, the sacrifice of this life source from animals in the Old Testament "covered" the sins of the people. In the New Testament, Christ became God's perfect sacrifice and animal sacrifice was no longer needed. The blood of Christ "washed" away our sins and did not simply "cover" our sins. Both the Old and New Testaments, therefore, do not contradict each other or God's laws in any way. The Old Testament is merely a progression of the New Testament. As Christ said, "I come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it."
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaSo how do you see the Jewish question then? It is very clear in the old testament that they were the 'Chosen People' does this mean that there were some 1/8 chosen people around? Part of the reason why only they should have been expected to follow the Old Testament laws is because only they were told what those laws were.
this thing with Jewish people makes absolutely no sense to me for fact i have many different bloods in me. if i was half Jewish would i follow half these laws, 1/4, 1/8. like what if i didn't know i was Jewish and lived my life according to what i knew... would it make a difference?
...[text shortened]...
Jesus is all i have left. He is my life.
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe way that I see things in the Bible is that God operates using covenants. Also, God operates using our free will. Why were the Israelites God's chosen people? It was because of a willing vessel named Abraham. Abraham chose to be God's servant and follow him. God, therefore, made a covenant with him and told him that his descendants would inherit the land in which is lived. Through Abrahams faith, God was able to bless him and his descendants. Without Abrahams consent this never would have come about.
So how do you see the Jewish question then? It is very clear in the old testament that they were the 'Chosen People' does this mean that there were some 1/8 chosen people around? Part of the reason why only they should have been expected to follow the Old Testament laws is because only they were told what those laws were.
However, Abrahams descendants have not always chosen to follow the God of Abraham. In such cases it is clear that those who chose not to follow him were not considered his people. In fact, it was possible for outside people to come into the group if they consented to the Mosaic law. A good example of this is in the New Testament. The Jewish religious leaders placed their faith in God strictly on the basis of their genetic heritage. Chirst rebuked them and made it clear to them that this in no way "saved" them. God requires faith whether you are Abraham, a descendant of Abraham, or a Gentile. Faith is what motivates God, not genes.