26 Apr 16
Originally posted by divegeesterIn the other thread you did NOT ask me if I was getting closer to making a decision on Christianity, your question was 'when I decide', how would I deal with the Old Testament stories. So I deny your accusation of dodging a question.
Then stop asking people and seek God for yourself. I asked you on the other thread if you are getting nearer of closer to understanding what it is to be a Christian and you declined to answer, I wonder why. I think I know why. I think you don't want to know the answer, I think you like to kick up the silt, you like to muddy the waters so you can feel lik ...[text shortened]... ese are all scriptures. You're pretty well read on them, so stop messing about and make a stand.
Secondly, when I do decide on my Christianity, and how I view it in regards to the identity of Jesus, and then maybe share it with you and the forum.....are you going to criticize it? If my version differs from yours?
Because it appears that you are criticizing Robbie's opinion/view/belief in 'his' particular view of who Jesus is. What is your beef with the Jehovah Witnesses?
If you don't like Robbie on a personal level, that's fine, but every dispute involves his involvement with the JW.
You also said that 'Jesus Christ is Lord'.. Some people don't share that opinion.
26 Apr 16
2 edits
Originally posted by chaney3I agree someone episodes in the Hebrew scriptures are difficult to come to terms with especially when viewed from a human perspective. They can be successfully argued rationally but even then, its not easy.
In the other thread you did NOT ask me if I was getting closer to making a decision on Christianity, your question was 'when I decide', how would I deal with the Old Testament stories. So I deny your accusation of dodging a question.
Secondly, when I do decide on my Christianity, and how I view it in regards to the identity of Jesus, and then maybe share ...[text shortened]... th the JW.
You also said that 'Jesus Christ is Lord'.. Some people don't share that opinion.
26 Apr 16
Originally posted by FMFAs I'm sure you know, I was using your example in regards to a comment made by twitehead....didn't think you would mind.
No. I don't think so, at all. I think a "Christian" has to believe that Jesus "saves" people in a supernatural way. And I don't. So I cannot and do not claim to be a Christian.
It seems that some people are classifying themselves as Christians when they either don't believe He existed, or don't believe that He held any divinity.
It's the first I've heard of Christian Atheists as well.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOther than "archangel" instead of "angel", please feel free to correct anything I said. All of it I've collected from our previous conversations on the subject.
No you neither understand the term 'god' nor understand how it is used in the Bible, infact the Bible terms human judges as 'gods', it terms Satan a 'god' of the system, this again has been explained to you countless times with not a shred of success. Actually Jesus or rather Michael is termed an Archangel, not simply an angel as you have erroneousl ...[text shortened]... against your ignorance. Perhaps if you were not so self assuming it may help you, who can say?
Originally posted by chaney3It was in this thread sorry, bottom of page 9.
In the other thread you did NOT ask me if I was getting closer to making a decision on Christianity, your question was 'when I decide', how would I deal with the Old Testament stories. So I deny your accusation of dodging a question.
Here it is again:
"As you add these definitions of Christian to your metaphorical "pile" do you feel you are getting closer, or further away, from deciding if you are one or not?"
Originally posted by chaney3Possibly, this is a debating forum after all. We are here to share and critique each other's ideas as you yourself do.
...when I do decide on my Christianity, and how I view it in regards to the identity of Jesus, and then maybe share it with you and the forum.....are you going to criticize it? If my version differs from yours?
Originally posted by chaney3This is a debate and discussion forum where people like Robbie carrobie bring and air their views. He is a Jehovah's Witness and therefore he talks about being one and what it means to him, I and others challenge him on it. I don't understand why you would think this is usual for an Internet forum about spirituality.
...it appears that you are criticizing Robbie's opinion/view/belief in 'his' particular view of who Jesus is. What is your beef with the Jehovah Witnesses?
26 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3People classifying themselves as Christians when they don't believe Jesus even existed? There may be some kind of 'sociological' or 'demographic' Christians perhaps ~ I have 'Catholic' on my identity card, for example - but there is no possible genuinely believed theological Christianity in which Jesus is held not to have existed.
It seems that some people are classifying themselves as Christians when they either don't believe He existed, or don't believe that He held any divinity.
26 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3You realize you did the right thing here, which is go to the source, it isn't an opinion that
John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
"whoever believes in Him".......those 4 words seem to have unlimited amounts of meanings to the world, and the criteria to claim oneself a Christian seems to be different depending on who you speak to.
makes one right with God. What does believe in Him mean, acknowledge Jesus is who
scripture claims He is or does it mean that you order your life to make Him your Lord? If
it is just claiming He is real and nothing about you changes, is that really believing? Jesus
did ask the question once of others, "...why do you call me Lord and don't do what I say?"
Luke 6:45-47New International Version (NIV)
45 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
The Wise and Foolish Builders
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like.
26 Apr 16
Originally posted by divegeesterHere is where I am right now:
It was in this thread sorry, bottom of page 9.
Here it is again:
"As you add these definitions of Christian to your metaphorical "pile" do you feel you are getting closer, or further away, from deciding if you are one or not?"
I believe in a Creator, and I believe that Creator is God.....the God from the Old Testament. Despite having numerous doubts and questions about some of things in the OT, and if the character of God is perfectly represented in those writings, my belief in Him has always been there. No matter what has happened in my life, and when I have felt that He doesn't seem to care about humans too much......it hasn't been enough for me to claim that He doesn't exist. So I am not an atheist.
In my youth, I believed in Jesus, as the Son of God.....a human, but not God, and things were okay until I found out about the Trinity, and that people were claiming that Jesus was God. I didn't understand that concept at all, and whatever faith people had to believe in the Trinity....I did not posses it. Instead, I went on a journey to find 'proof' that Jesus was God, because it didn't make sense to me to worship the 'wrong' way. The primary avenue I took was the Bible....thinking that the evidence would be there, but I found that Jesus never actually said the words "I am God". He said things close to that, things that could be interpreted that way.....but never said it directly. So lacking the faith to just believe it, and move on with my life.....I searched the Old Testament, looking for words in the prophecies that spoke of the Messiah, to see if the prophecies 'claimed' that the Messiah would BE God. The only verse that had an impact was Zechariah 12:10, which was a quote by God stating that He would be pierced.....and they will mourn Him (paraphrasing). So, I had some hope that I had found some hard evidence, but it didn't last.
So right now, I have gone back to my comfort zone....the Jesus of my youth, which made sense to me. I don't seem to yet have the faith to proclaim that Jesus is God. So, I believe in God....and I believe in Jesus....a human, Son of God....but a different person.
Now....with all of that said, I still have a pretty weak faith when it comes to believing that either God, or Jesus.....is concerned with me or my life.....even though the Bible claims that they are.
I have known people in my life who 'just believe', and it somehow is easy for them....they don't think about it too much. But not me, my mind wants to make sense of it, when it may be impossible to do so. Back to my OP, I do believe....but struggle with some unbelief. And will admit that while I believe in God, and His son Jesus.....that my faith and trust in them is sorely lacking.
Does all of this make me a Christian? Sometimes I feel like it, and at times, during the low points in life....I don't.
I wrote all this to make an effort to answer your question, but also to let the other posters from this thread and forum get a little insight into my spiritual journey. It hasn't been easy to say the least.
26 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3I like your post.
Here is where I am right now:
I believe in a Creator, and I believe that Creator is God.....the God from the Old Testament. Despite having numerous doubts and questions about some of things in the OT, and if the character of God is perfectly represented in those writings, my belief in Him has always been there. No matter what has happened in my life, an ...[text shortened]... and forum get a little insight into my spiritual journey. It hasn't been easy to say the least.
The greatest thing I believe about God is that He is Love, and that He knows us
completely always has. Which means that when Jesus laid down His life for you and me,
He did it knowing us at our worst.
My hope is that my worst is behind me! I would say that there is nothing wrong with
walking with God and struggling with it. How could you do anything but that? In this life
we can always find a reason to turn away, we can almost always justify bad behavior
and typically bad behavior is the only type we feel the need to justify ourselves in.
One thing I'd leave you with, in our weakness He is strong...you don't have to be a giant
spiritually, faith the size of a muster seed is okay. 🙂
26 Apr 16
Originally posted by chaney3Four simple words, not easily said.
Here is where I am right now:
I believe in a Creator, and I believe that Creator is God.....the God from the Old Testament. Despite having numerous doubts and questions about some of things in the OT, and if the character of God is perfectly represented in those writings, my belief in Him has always been there. No matter what has happened in my life, an ...[text shortened]... and forum get a little insight into my spiritual journey. It hasn't been easy to say the least.
What fills our head?
