What i believe

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to Zahlanzi

Ditto !

vishva

Do you or Zahlanzi have evidence in the New Testament that Jesus regarded His Father at ANY TIME to be a "monster"?

Jesus said that the God of the Old Testament was His Father. Please show me where Jesus said anything to the effect that God was a monster.

for example, something like - "My Father in the instance of this or that story in the Hebrew Scriptures, was a MONSTER !"

That would help if you could point me to such a assusation from Jesus against His Father.

Originally posted by josephw
I believe that when Jesus shows up all the unbelievers in the world will crap their pants. 😲 😉

So you think he's going to kill/torture/maim several billion people?

Bit out of character, considering what he did last time around.

Concerning the second coming of Jesus:

This age of history will culminate in a man and his armies physically trying to fight against Jesus Christ.

Let me repeat this way. This stage of world history will come to a climax with a strong leader and his armies seeking to physically fight against God over the ownership of this planet.

The Antichrist will arise in Europe, I believe. his kingdom of enfluence, as far as I have learned, will mainly be over what would constitute something like a revived Roman Empire in its geographic scope.

Perhaps, the rise of "Fortress Europe" is an indication that a geographic area is emerging today as a futue sphere over which the coming Antichrist will direct ten aggregated nations.

The world will gradually move from natural calamities to supernatural calamities. Things will happen which science cannot explain. The occult will burst for with demonic activity and miraculous signs of an evil nature.

We can see the rise of a militant atheism in Europe today in the popular writings of men like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion and "God Is Not Great".

My suspicion is that geographic regions outside of this revived Roman Empire type confederacy will constitute what the book of Revelation called "the wilderness".

I think refugees who are able to escape the horrible governement of the Antichrist will flee to other nations who will receive them. These other nations I expect will be financially weak.

The concentration of financial power will be under the Antichrist. Rather logical people such as we see arguing on this Forum, will be swept up in a hysteria. We have seen this happen before in history.

Antichrist will be used indirectly as God's means to destroy the Roman Catholic Church and persecute all theistic religions. Antichrist will attack the Roman Catholic Church and her spawned off shoots. He will probably rob Christianity of its money whipping people up into an anti-Chrisitan frenzy to sieze the material wealth of all theistic religions.

Antichrist will proclam himself as god. He will capture the Holy Land and break his promises of protection to the nation of Israel. He will sit in what will be then the new temple in Jerusalem and say the he is god. If you want to eat or buy or sell, if you want to survive period, you must pay your allegence to Antichrist the opponent of God and Christ.

At the second coming of Christ Antichrist will physically fight back to retain ownership of this earth. He will be crushed by Christ the King of kings.

Knowing all these things will not save a person necessarily. The pull will be so strong, the current will be so powerful, like a boat trying to go against the mighty current of the Niagra Falls. At a certain point there is no turning back.

The time to arm yourself against the global hysteria of the coming Antichrist is to now by getting to know CHRIST, in prayer and in prayerful reading of the Bible.

The time to be rooted in the reality is way before this strong current of events takes place.

Even on this forum there are some people who would believe in Jesus if they could. It seems that they cannot bring themselves to pray. They have been locked behind bars of skepticism so long even if they wanted to repent to be saved, it seems that they cannot free themselves from the padlock on thier will and heart.

"Seek the Lord while He may be found. Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the evil doer his thoughts; and let them return to the Lord;

And He will have compassion on him; And to our God, for He will pardon abundantly" (Isaiah 55:6,7)

Seek the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior, while He can be found. He never rejects an honest prayer.

It could be that the last days before the second coming of Christ are upon us. But whether they are or not, no one is garuanteed to still be alive this very evening. The end for any one of us could be at any time unkown to us, a surprise.

Seek the Lord while He can be found.

Originally posted by jaywill
Concerning the second coming of Jesus:

This age of history will culminate in a man and his armies [b]physically trying to fight against Jesus Christ.

Let me repeat this way. This stage of world history will come to a climax with a strong leader and his armies seeking to physically fight against God over the ownership of this planet.

...[text shortened]... could be at any time unkown to us, a surprise.

Seek the Lord while He can be found.[/b]

Have you read either The God Delusion, or God is not Great?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Have you read either The God Delusion, or God is not Great?

No I have not. I have heard many debates and talks given by both authors.

I have listen to many debates where both men amply expressed their ideas.

Originally posted by jaywill
Do you or Zahlanzi have evidence in the New Testament that Jesus regarded His Father at ANY TIME to be a "monster"?

Jesus said that the God of the Old Testament was His Father. Please show me where Jesus said anything to the effect that God was a monster.

for example, something like - "My Father in the instance of this or that story in the Hebrew Sc ...[text shortened]...
That would help if you could point me to such a assusation from Jesus against His Father.

to jaywill

the bible teach,s that god will send people into damnation for eternity, and that is a monster.

vishva

Originally posted by jaywill
No I have not. I have heard many debates and talks given by both authors.

I have listen to many debates where both men amply expressed their ideas.

Seeing as you seem to know a great deal about 'the second coming', any idea when?

I want to make sure i'll be smartly presented, i don't want to be meeting the messiah in my jogging bottoms.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Seeing as you seem to know a great deal about 'the second coming', any idea when?

I want to make sure i'll be smartly presented, i don't want to be meeting the messiah in my jogging bottoms.

Funny.

No, I do not know when. But I will say this. And if you don't take heed I think it is a lose. I will say this to anyone reading.

The Second Coming of Christ is MORE determined by the prayers and spiritual life of His people then by outward indications.

The drive energizing the second coming of Jesus is the spiritual health of a good number of victorious Christian disciples on the earth cooperating with His will.

What this means is that YOU and I can be directly involved in the greatest human project in history. What a unspeakable priviledge. We can effect the return of the Son of God physically to this earth. We can be involved in wooing Him back physcially. We can cooperate with Him to lay the tracks for His return.

Is there a greater life's work ?

You have the opportunity to live unto this great honor and priveledge, to be among those establishing a spiritual "beach head" for the second coming of Christ.

Is there a greater purpose for which I could live ? This is wonderful.

The prophet Haggai called the Messiah "The Desire of the Nations". And creation is eagerly awaiting the revelation of the sons of God.

Originally posted by jaywill
Do you or Zahlanzi have evidence in the New Testament that Jesus regarded His Father at ANY TIME to be a "monster"?

Jesus said that the God of the Old Testament was His Father. Please show me where Jesus said anything to the effect that God was a monster.

for example, something like - "My Father in the instance of this or that story in the Hebrew Sc ...[text shortened]...
That would help if you could point me to such a assusation from Jesus against His Father.

you make the same mistake joseph makes.

you believe that god is the same as the "god" in the bible, the one that ordered all those people killed, the one that ordered all those inhuman laws, the one that destroyed his own creation in a flood rather than try and redeem it.

yes, jesus did say that the god of the jews was his father. from there to every word in the old testament to be 100% true is a long way.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to jaywill

the bible teach,s that god will send people into damnation for eternity, and that is a monster.

vishva

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to jaywill

the bible teach,s that god will send people into damnation for eternity, and that is a monster.

vishva
================================

VishVA, If God, the source of all blessing and goodness and beauty and righteousness and holiness and glory is to reign over the whole universe, and a person wants no part of His reign, where is he to go?

Where ever he goes it is without the Source of love and beauty, without the Source of harmony and blessedness.

That place, whatever it is, must be a hell by its very definition.

Furthermore it is probably a place of ultimate escape from God. To step out of it and into the pure light and love of the eternal God would keep the rebels hiding within it. To confront the One Whose love and redemption they have spurned would be more painful then the punishments of hell. Probably there is no need to fence it in or put bars upon it. It is a place of ultimate escape from God.

Jesus has gone to hell for everyone so that we need not go. It is our blessing to realize that damnation fell upon the Son of God, on our behalf, that justice for our sins might be excecuted on Him that we might be forgiven and saved.

"Lord Jesus, since on Calvary, You have become a curse under God's judgment on my behalf, I receive your gracious gift of eternal life. Justice has been imputed for me on Your cross. Thank you that now I can be looked upon by God as if I had never sinned at all."

Originally posted by jaywill
Concerning the second coming of Jesus:

This age of history will culminate in a man and his armies [b]physically trying to fight against Jesus Christ.

Let me repeat this way. This stage of world history will come to a climax with a strong leader and his armies seeking to physically fight against God over the ownership of this planet.

...[text shortened]... could be at any time unkown to us, a surprise.

Seek the Lord while He can be found.[/b]

I'll be ok...got a long sword +1 and magic missile spell

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you make the same mistake joseph makes.

you believe that god is the same as the "god" in the bible, the one that ordered all those people killed, the one that ordered all those inhuman laws, the one that destroyed his own creation in a flood rather than try and redeem it.

yes, jesus did say that the god of the jews was his father. from there to every word in the old testament to be 100% true is a long way.

==========================================
you make the same mistake joseph makes.

you believe that god is the same as the "god" in the bible, the one that ordered all those people killed, the one that ordered all those inhuman laws, the one that destroyed his own creation in a flood rather than try and redeem it.

yes, jesus did say that the god of the jews was his father. from there to every word in the old testament to be 100% true is a long way.
=======================================

Hold on here Zahlanzi. You do not see salvation and redemption in the story of Noah ?

Why the ark? Why the rescue? Why the new beginning? Why years and years of preparation and preaching from Noah to a society that would not listen ?

You do not see God's redemptive work in the flood of Noah ? I think you must have missed the entire point of the account.

The ark is a type of Jesus Christ Himself. The Old Testament is the picture. The New Testament is the caption underneath the picture.

The ark is a symbol of the Redeemer, the Son of God. Read Genesis again with this thought in view - the ark and what it does is typology pointing to God's salvation of mankind in Jesus Christ.

Did you know that the ark came to rest on the dry land the same day that Jesus rose from the dead ? So we can see that the redemptive death and resurrection of Christ for our salvation is depicted in the Noah flood account.

Jesus Christ is called in Revelation "The Amen, the Beginning of the creation of God". This means that Jesus is the initiation of a new creation. You only notice the termination of the old creation. You do not appreciate that in Christ is a new beginning of creation in which the Satanic element is removed and the righteousness, holiness, and glory of God permeate the saved ones.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==========================================
you make the same mistake joseph makes.

you believe that god is the same as the "god" in the bible, the one that ordered all those people killed, the one that ordered all those inhuman laws, the one that destroyed his own creation in a flood rather than try and redeem it.

yes, jesus did say that th ...[text shortened]... ment is removed and the righteousness, holiness, and glory of God permeate the saved ones.

oh i do see it
as an allegory.
be nice or god might kick your ass. new beginning. stay true to your convictions even if the world is evil. and so on.

but since we now have evidence that there was no world wide flood, and we have plenty, does that mean the message is any less meaningful?

the story of the three little piggies and the wolf who hoofed and poofed is any less meaningful because there weren't any piggies that build straw, stick and brick houses respectively?

Beware the Vogon Destructor Fleet!

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
oh i do see it
as an allegory.
be nice or god might kick your ass. new beginning. stay true to your convictions even if the world is evil. and so on.

but since we now have evidence that there was no world wide flood, and we have plenty, does that mean the message is any less meaningful?

the story of the three little piggies and the wolf who hoofed ...[text shortened]... ingful because there weren't any piggies that build straw, stick and brick houses respectively?

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oh i do see it
as an allegory.
be nice or god might kick your ass. new beginning. stay true to your convictions even if the world is evil. and so on.
==========================

An allegory without enforcement is a joke.

If you do not realize the danger your soul is in in coming before God with a record of sins, thankfully Jesus did.


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but since we now have evidence that there was no world wide flood, and we have plenty, does that mean the message is any less meaningful?
======================================

We have an ongoing dispute that there may or may not have been a global wide flood. If all the people were concentrated in a certain area, for intents and purposes, the would constitute the whole world as far as mankind is concerned.

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the story of the three little piggies and the wolf who hoofed and poofed is any less meaningful because there weren't any piggies that build straw, stick and brick houses respectively?
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I do not mistake straightfowardness and simplicity for childishness or naivete.

That God would cause something to happen that the largest possible number of people could readily understand, even being from varied age groups, is His wisdom.

I do not mistake God's wisdom and simplicity of details to indicate a childish fantasy. I graduated from that bit of smugness some time ago.

But, hey, I'm not poor little Christian BEGGING you to believe. Run with what you think. Should make it all very interesting in the end to say the least.