1. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 01:16
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    He mentioned the Jewish faith because it has the basis for understanding. The Jews have awaited their foretold Messiah for hundreds, yea thousands, of years. The main difference between them and Christians is that they are still waiting. I believe Jews will be active during the Tribulation, many will be converted then, and many of them will become martyr ...[text shortened]... s, and it is this journey that illuminates our faith. Thank God we are not all the same.
    I'm still not sure if your motivation is curiosity or derision.


    This thread is not derision on my part, and you can call me on that if you see it. But you are right if you detect a motivation beyond curiosity. The apparently insoluble conflicts between the religious on this forum, dominate the forum; each of them considering themselves to be right and somehow obligated -- and entitled -- to judge the other. I was looking for what unites them, not what divides them. I guess I am just uncomfortable around conflict.
  2. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 01:435 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    I thought this could be edifying if any Bible believers care to explain which beliefs are really spiritually important to have, hopefully citing chapter and verse. It might be helpful to give examples of Bible truths one need not necessarily have belief in.
    Love.

    As the good book says, God is love. Christ once said that love is at the heart of God's law even though people were twisting it for legalistic oppression to gain power. Paul knew this and was thus inspired to write 1 Corinthians 13 which basically defines what love is and says that everything will pass away.....except love. My farvorite passage is when Paul says that we, including himself, knows so little about God now and we see him as though peering through a dark glass, but ONE DAY!! we will behold him in his completness which is pure love. You could even argue that other valued virtues like faith are grounded in love. After all, you tend to place your faith in those you love. Clearly love is what makes us tick. It gives our life meaning and without it we gravitate towards being an evil monster.

    Of course, love is messy because it involves free will. If there is no free will for both parties then a mutually loving relationship is not possible. This then leads to the potential for pain and disappointment which muddies the waters. Next thing ya know we are peering through a poor mirror. But ONE DAY!!........
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jan '12 06:05
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yes God cannot sin. But Jesus could haved sinned if he had chosen too.

    Are you familiar with the scriptures that call Jesus the "faithful and true witness"?

    If it was an absolute given that Jesus could not sin and would remain faithful to God which is why he came to earth which was to remain faithful to god and let his life be taken for us, then w ...[text shortened]... sus in no way was God on earth. He was a man and that's all he was while he was here.
    You are missing a major fact. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary as His
    mother and adopted by Joseph as the father. However, God was His
    real Father. This makes Him both son of man and also Son of God.
    This means He was more than just a mere man as you seem to think.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jan '12 06:11
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yes he is totally the son of God but he is not the same being as Almighty God as the trinity teaches. This 1 in 3 God does not exist. Jesus was created just as the other angels were created with the only differance is that God created Jesus first and that Jesus was involved in all other creation, hence the term "helper" is applied to Jesus.
    Get it right! Three in One, not 1 in 3. 😏
  5. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 10:27
    Originally posted by JS357
    I thought this could be edifying if any Bible believers care to explain which beliefs are really spiritually important to have, hopefully citing chapter and verse. It might be helpful to give examples of Bible truths one need not necessarily have belief in.
    I thought this could be edifying if any Bible believers care to explain which beliefs are really spiritually important to have, hopefully citing chapter and verse. It might be helpful to give examples of Bible truths one need not necessarily have belief in.



    God became man so that man might become God in life and nature, but not in His Godhead. [this is generally a paraphrased quote from Athanasius]

    God created man in order to join with man in life and in an "organic" union. God created man that He might not mingle with man, blend with man, unite with man and be man's life - living through man.

    And for this eternal purpose He had to redeem man to bring the distracted humankind back from being sidetracked into a Satanic rebellion, to His kingdom.

    God must be triune to carry His ternal purpose - The Father as the Source of the divine life. The is the Manifestation of the divine life. And the Holy Spirit is the transmission, the dispensing, the imparting of the divine life into the redeemed people of God.
  6. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jan '12 15:43
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Get it right! Three in One, not 1 in 3. 😏
    Oh sorry. Now it's all clear to me as that makes better sense....
  7. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jan '12 15:47
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You are missing a major fact. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary as His
    mother and adopted by Joseph as the father. However, God was His
    real Father. This makes Him both son of man and also Son of God.
    This means He was more than just a mere man as you seem to think.
    He was a perfect man physically and that is the result of Jehovah being his father. So nothing new here so I've missed nothing. But he still could have sinned if he had choose too.
    So he was in no way God who cannot sin at all as you yourself stated. So explain this with the trinity....

    Where's the other trinity experts? Any thoughts on this?
  8. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 16:12
    Originally posted by galveston75
    He was a perfect man physically and that is the result of Jehovah being his father. So nothing new here so I've missed nothing. But he still could have sinned if he had choose too.
    So he was in no way God who cannot sin at all as you yourself stated. So explain this with the trinity....

    Where's the other trinity experts? Any thoughts on this?
    This thread has been hijacked by the "trinity experts". I ask that it be considered closed.
  9. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 16:181 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    This thread has been hijacked by the "trinity experts". I ask that it be considered closed.
    You may "close" your thread at any time. But you do so hypocritically. If you do not agree that the Father, Son, Holy Spirit is not an ESSENTIAL truth of the Bible, state it. That is reasonable.

    But if you a prior decide that Father, Son, Holy Spirit is definitely not an essential truth of the Bible you are only pretending to inquire for an answer to the stated question.

    In that case your prejudiced inquiry posture is really a phony one that has not been hijacked.
  10. PenTesting
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    05 Jan '12 16:22
    Originally posted by JS357
    This thread has been hijacked by the "trinity experts". I ask that it be considered closed.
    Galveston did it on Page 2 and I was hoping that you would have told him. Probably he would have ignored you knowing the arrogance of the JWs.
  11. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jan '12 16:28
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Galveston did it on Page 2 and I was hoping that you would have told him. Probably he would have ignored you knowing the arrogance of the JWs.
    *******************
  12. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jan '12 16:30
    Originally posted by JS357
    This thread has been hijacked by the "trinity experts". I ask that it be considered closed.
    I apologize and will not continue with the trinity discussion.......Sorry.
  13. PenTesting
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    05 Jan '12 16:31
    Originally posted by jaywill
    You may "close" your thread at any time. But you do so hypocritically. If you do not agree that the Father, Son, Holy Spirit is not an ESSENTIAL truth of the Bible, state it. That is reasonable.

    But if you a prior decide that Father, Son, Holy Spirit is definitely not an essential truth of the Bible you are only pretending to inquire for an answer to ...[text shortened]... In that case your prejudiced inquiry posture is really a phony one that has not been hijacked.
    Jaywill, I think you are missing the point.

    An essential truth the way I interpret the meaning from the OP is one which is a matter of life and death, ie if that belief is missing from the doctrine of the believer then that believer is doomed when Christ returns to judge us.

    Is it your opinion that a believer must understand your concept of the Triune God otherwise that believer is doomed?

    To me essential truths are laid down by Christ and Paul. And dont tell me that its complicated or difficult or complex. If it is in your mind all these things then you have lost the essence and spirit of the teachings of Christ and Paul and you are in fact lost.

    The teachings and gospel of Christ and Paul are both simple to understand and easy to do if we approach Christ with the right heart and mind.
  14. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 19:14
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Galveston did it on Page 2 and I was hoping that you would have told him. Probably he would have ignored you knowing the arrogance of the JWs.
    I regard hijacking to have occurred when the subject introduced takes over the bulk of the attention. Galveston's post was not enough in itself to raise my hackles. In this particular case the trinity issue has been argued all over this forum, with absolutely no resolution. It is a classic hijack subject because it presses buttons and ACCORDING TO THE HISTORY OF THE ISSUE, will not be resolved. Rather than discuss whether it is ESSENTIAL, which would be fair, the discussion followed the same old path of who was right and who was wrong about it. It now seems to be getting some attention as to whether it is ESSENTIAL and what ESSENTIAL means, but I predict it will go back to who has the right belief.

    I don't want to be associated with the trinity issue. I have tried to stay out of the trinity discussion because I see it as an internal issue within Christianity although I fully expect someone to play the No True Scotsman card on me for saying this. Everyone here is playing by the same rules and I accept that I can't dictate the trajectory of a thread. I do appreciate the topic being ended on this thread.
  15. PenTesting
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    05 Jan '12 20:16
    Originally posted by JS357
    I regard hijacking to have occurred when the subject introduced takes over the bulk of the attention. Galveston's post was not enough in itself to raise my hackles. In this particular case the trinity issue has been argued all over this forum, with absolutely no resolution. It is a classic hijack subject because it presses buttons and ACCORDING TO THE HISTORY ...[text shortened]... n't dictate the trajectory of a thread. I do appreciate the topic being ended on this thread.
    I did once ask Jaywill if the trinity is an essential doctrine for salvation and he said NO. But that was several months ago. He seems to have changed his mind now 🙂
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