What is ESSENTIAL TRUTH in the Bible?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I did once ask Jaywill if the trinity is an essential doctrine for salvation and he said NO. But that was several months ago. He seems to have changed his mind now 🙂

I believe what Jaywill may have been referring to is the belief in the
Roman Catholic Doctrine of the trinity and the requirement to accept
the Roman Catholic Church as the true church of Christ. These are
not a requirement for salvation in my opinion. However, how can
you believe in the deity of Christ, which is a requirement, without
believing in an idea like is put forth in parts of that doctine?

Originally posted by RJHinds
.. how can you believe in the deity of Christ, which is a requirement

Can you provide a Bible reference which says that you have to believe in the diety of Christ?

I can provide direct references for all doctrines which I say are considered essential.

I had a discussion about this in the past with Rajk.

I think what he's saying is that he simply is going by what the Bible itself says about there being one God - and about there being a Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - and simply accepts this without needing to make ANY further speculations.

Perhaps its best to just declare the whole thing to be a Mystery.

I think the main reason why the church laid out a specific trinity doctrine was because a number of different doctrines had been developed and they were creating major divisions and controversies within the church - so the issue needed to be settled to prevent the church from splitting.

Of the various doctrines, the trinity doctrine does seem to be the best way to sum up all of what the Bible gives us. But for those who do not accept anything that is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, Rajk's approach makes sense.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
I had a discussion about this in the past with Rajk.

I think what he's saying is that he simply is going by what the Bible itself says about there being one God - and about there being a Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - and simply accepts this without needing to make ANY further speculations.

Perhaps its best to just declare the whole thing t ...[text shortened]... accept anything that is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, Rajk's approach makes sense.

Thanks for your comments. You expressed my opinion better than I could have myself.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you provide a Bible reference which says that you have to believe in the diety of Christ?

I can provide direct references for all doctrines which I say are considered essential.

(Romans 10:9-13 NASB)

if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart
that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart
a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he
confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER
BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no
distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all,
abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL
ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

Praise the LORD !!! Hallelu YAH !!!

YAHshua said, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

(John 8:24 NASB)

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe what Jaywill may have been referring to is the belief in the
Roman Catholic Doctrine of the trinity and the requirement to accept
the Roman Catholic Church as the true church of Christ. These are
not a requirement for salvation in my opinion. However, how can
you believe in the deity of Christ, which is a requirement, without
believing in an idea like is put forth in parts of that doctine?

I believe what Jaywill may have been referring to is the belief in the
Roman Catholic Doctrine of the trinity and the requirement to accept
the Roman Catholic Church as the true church of Christ. These are
not a requirement for salvation in my opinion. However, how can
you believe in the deity of Christ, which is a requirement, without
believing in an idea like is put forth in parts of that doctine?

No I was not.

I left the thread. You do not have to refer to anything I wrote in this thread any more.

Originally posted by jaywill
[quote] I believe what Jaywill may have been referring to is the belief in the
Roman Catholic Doctrine of the trinity and the requirement to accept
the Roman Catholic Church as the true church of Christ. These are
not a requirement for salvation in my opinion. However, how can
you believe in the deity of Christ, which is a requirement, without
bel ...[text shortened]...

I left the thread. You do not have to refer to anything I wrote in this thread any more.

E X C U S E ......ME!

Originally posted by RJHinds
(Romans 10:9-13 NASB)

if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart
that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart
a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he
confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER
BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For ...[text shortened]... our sins;
for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

(John 8:24 NASB)

Jesus is Lord Yes, the Son of God.
Jesus is not God.

1 Cor 11:3 ... the head of Christ is God.

THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Explain that !

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus is Lord Yes, the Son of God.
Jesus is not God.

1 Cor 11:3 ... the head of Christ is God.

THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Explain that !

Jesus (Yahshua) was both son of man and Son of God.
He could not be son of man without also being man.
Likewise, He could not be Son of God without also being God.
The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
He was able to become the God/man by the operation of the
Holy Spirit on the virgin Mary. His death on the cross would
not have paid the penalty for all of man's sins throughout
eternity if he had not also been the eternal God. And it is
only the eternal God that can forgive sins against the eternal
God. Since He was the creator He was able to forgive His
creatures and at the same time satisfy the justice required by
God the Father.

1 Cor 11:3 ... the head of Christ is God.
This refers to the fact that Christ, as the Son of God, does
the will of the God the Father. We in the church should do
the will of Christ.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Jesus (Yahshua) was both son of man and Son of God.
He could not be son of man without also being man.
Likewise, He could not be Son of God without also being God.
The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
He was able to become the God/man by the operation of the
Holy Spirit on the virgin Mary. His death on the cross would
not have pa ...[text shortened]... of God, does
the will of the God the Father. We in the church should do
the will of Christ.

So from what you are saying, its obvious that Christ the Son, and God the Father are two separate and distinct entities.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So from what you are saying, its obvious that Christ the Son, and God the Father are two separate and distinct entities.

Distinct not separate.
I wrote, "The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God."
There in ONE God not THREE separate gods.

Yet, there is a distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
This is a mystery of God. This is what the Holy Bible says without
any addition or subtraction, as you wish.

Believe it or not.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Distinct not separate.
I wrote, "The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God."
There in ONE God not THREE separate gods.

Yet, there is a distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
This is a mystery of God. This is what the Holy Bible says without
any addition or subtraction, as you wish.

Believe it or not.

Separate because one knows things the other does not and one does things the other does not. They must be separate.

Originally posted by RJHinds
E X C U S E ......ME!

No offense intended there.
Do as you feel you need to do.

Originally posted by jaywill
No offense intended there.
Do as you feel you need to do.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you meant. Go ahead and explain to
Rajk999 how I was wrong about what you meant so we both understand.
Maybe, you can explain to him what I am trying to say, too. For it is
clear I am not getting through to him anymore than I have to the JWs.
🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Separate because one knows things the other does not and one does things the other does not. They must be separate.

You are ignoring that Jesus was also a human born of Mary with God as His
Father. A human does not know the mind of God. Jesus sometimes speaks
from His humanity and other times from His divinity. If He where not also
the son of man He would be unable to sin and His faithfullness to His Father
would have no bearing on our salvation.

P.S. After the resurrection Christ received back the full glory he had with
the Father in the beginning plus a glorified body of flesh and bone and all
authority was given to Him, which would include the authority to know all
things.