@divegeester saidFear, control, and of course, revenue.
The concept of eternal suffering doesn’t bring people to Christ, so what is the point of it?
17 Jul 19
@divegeester saidYour mistake is the assumption that everything in existence that comes from God is solely to bring people to Christ.
The concept of eternal suffering doesn’t bring people to Christ, so what is the point of it?
Where did you come up with that one?
The question of what the "point" of eternal suffering is is also perhaps wrong. Some things have reasons, but they do not have points because they are not meant to lead to some final goal.
It also has to be understood that Hell is not created by God, but rather, it is the result of rejecting God.
@philokalia saidWhat is the “reason” for torturing people for eternity after they die, in a place no one can see from the here-and-now?
Your mistake is the assumption that everything in existence that comes from God is solely to bring people to Christ.
Where did you come up with that one?
The question of what the "point" of eternal suffering is is also perhaps wrong. Some things have reasons, but they do not have points because they are not meant to lead to some final goal.
...[text shortened]... as to be understood that Hell is not created by God, but rather, it is the result of rejecting God.
Who came to Christ because of it?
How many have been put off of Christ because of it?
17 Jul 19
@divegeester saidFor those who tell themselves [and maybe others] that they are "saved" by their belief in their convoluted doctrines about the supernatural realm, and therefore they will not face "eternal suffering" they believe in, I think the concept that those who have different beliefs from them - and their ultimate in-crowd - will be subjected to incomprehensibly perverted supernatural cruelty and violence - without end - by the god figure they worship, is a kind of malignant narcissism of genocidal-strength .
The concept of eternal suffering doesn’t bring people to Christ, so what is the point of it?
@philokalia saidIf it is wrong to think the purpose of bringing people into existence is to bring them to "Christ", do you believe your God figure creates human beings for the explicit and foreseen purpose of torturing them in burning flames for eternity?
Your mistake is the assumption that everything in existence that comes from God is solely to bring people to Christ.
17 Jul 19
@philokalia saidSo do you believe that tormenting people in burning flames for eternity for not believing in Jesus may, in fact, be pointless?
The question of what the "point" of eternal suffering is is also perhaps wrong. Some things have reasons, but they do not have points because they are not meant to lead to some final goal.
It also has to be understood that Hell is not created by God, but rather, it is the result of rejecting God.
17 Jul 19
1 edit
@philokalia saidSo do you believe that no one or nothing actually carries out the tormenting and burning of humans in flames for eternity, that it just happens anyway, somehow, without any 'agent' or perpetrator, and that the Bible is wrong to suggest that Jesus will be there, looking on, and watching the torture being administered?
It also has to be understood that Hell is not created by God, but rather, it is the result of rejecting God.
17 Jul 19
@divegeester saidWho came to Christ because of it? How many have been put off of Christ because of it?
What is the “reason” for torturing people for eternity after they die, in a place no one can see from the here-and-now?
Who came to Christ because of it?
How many have been put off of Christ because of it?
I don't see why these questions are of any importance to Christians of the 'I'm Alright Jack' type Christians.
17 Jul 19
@divegeester saidYou did not confront any of my points but merely asked questions based off of the same assumptions you started this thread with.
What is the “reason” for torturing people for eternity after they die, in a place no one can see from the here-and-now?
Who came to Christ because of it?
How many have been put off of Christ because of it?
17 Jul 19
@fmf saidIt would not be pointless in terms of it being reasonless, but it could potentially be pointless in terms of not having an end goal beyond the act that is occurring.
So do you believe that tormenting people in burning flames for eternity for not believing in Jesus may, in fact, be pointless?
17 Jul 19
@fmf saidOh no, people are not created destined for hell.
If it is wrong to think the purpose of bringing people into existence is to bring them to "Christ", do you believe your God figure creates human beings for the explicit and foreseen purpose of torturing them in burning flames for eternity?
People are created with free wills, and the desire is for all to come to Christ, but there is not interference with the free will of another.
Is the fact that some will go to hell foreknown? Yes.
But it is what is deserved for their choices. They were not created for that end, but chose that path.
17 Jul 19
@fmf said
So do you believe that no one or nothing actually carries out the tormenting and burning of humans in flames for eternity, that it just happens anyway, somehow, without any 'agent' or perpetrator, and that the Bible is wrong to suggest that Jesus will be there, looking on, and watching the torture being administered?
Revelation 14:9-10 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
In the presence of the Lamb would mean simply that God is somehwo present, not necessarily devoting himself to looking in, and in this case we know He is not present in hell in a conventional sense (as the most grievous punishment is being cut off from God), but rather, this refers to the light of God filling the space of hell as a flame, I would imagine.
But I have to heavily preface this: I am not a theologian and not qualified to speak on this in any grand way.
17 Jul 19
@philokalia saidWhat is the moral purpose of it occuring?
It would not be pointless in terms of it being reasonless, but it could potentially be pointless in terms of not having an end goal beyond the act that is occurring.
17 Jul 19
@philokalia saidYou did not make any points. You asserted that i had made a mistake, I haven't.
You did not confront any of my points but merely asked questions based off of the same assumptions you started this thread with.
Then you tried to lamely split a hair over the difference between a reason and a point.
If you feel like addressing my OP in an intelligent manner please feel free to do so.