What is the point of eternal suffering?
17 Jul '19 07:25@philokalia saidWhat description?
Where are you getting that description?
17 Jul '19 07:27@philokalia saidMy neighbours' "desire for communion with God" is satisfied by Islam, their religion. There are Hindus living down my street, originally from Bali, whose "desire for communion with God" is satisfied by their religion too.
People who do not desire communion with God end up in hell.
17 Jul '19 07:28@philokalia saidAnd what is that "end"?
What is the moral goal of hell? There isn't one. It's the end itself.
17 Jul '19 07:30@philokalia saidWhat is the reason that hell exists in this sense: who created it?
What is the reason that hell exists? Because people send themselves there through their actions and desires (desire is a redundant word here because desires are actions).
17 Jul '19 07:34@philokalia saidTorturing, burning, inflicting pain, keeping a victim alive or not allowing him or her to become unconscious, overseeing the torment etc. these are all actions taken by the god figure in your ideology. How can such actions be taken while having no moral purpose?
Where are you getting that description?
People who do not desire communion with God end up in hell. People who are baptized into the Church of God and repent of their sins are admitted into the Kingdom of God. The gray areas, I do not know about -- nobody really does.
What is the moral goal of hell? There isn't one. It's the end itself.
What is the [i]rea ...[text shortened]... of one's sins and seek communion of God.
At least, this is how I believe it is to be understood.
17 Jul '19 07:39@fmf said(1) First of all, we know that those who never knew God will be appraised through a different means, and even among the Saints there are disagreements as to the means and how it will occur. This is an absolutely different topic with a lot of depth to it, but of course, it is relevant.
Why would a creator being leave such a lack of proof of the veracity of Christianity in so far as only 1 in 3 people in the world subscribe to it - at best? There could be more convincing evidence and a more credible revelation and people would still have the free will to believe something else, surely?
How would a more convincing revelation that embraced more human beings and ...[text shortened]... Christian life - and gain from its communal and personal benefits - be an abrogation of "free will".
17 Jul '19 07:49@fmf saidI don't actually understand the question.
Whether or not Jesus is there, in person, overseeing the torture of billions of people that you say has "no moral purpose" is not relevant to whether or not what you are describing - and claiming to be real and true - is coherent or credible? Are you sure?
17 Jul '19 07:491 edit@philokalia saidSo, you chance upon a theory of supernatural causality and intervention that answers the 'big questions' for you, and then you subscribe to the ideology that people whose curiosity and spiritual dimension steers them to different answers to the 'big question' get subjected to a ludicrously violent punishment, after they die, and deservedly so.
People who do not desire communion with God end up in hell. People who are baptized into the Church of God and repent of their sins are admitted into the Kingdom of God.
17 Jul '19 07:50@fmf saidWhat is meant about it that it is uncreated is that it is not created by God, but created by circumstance.
This will be a relief to many non-believers, I think. So, your god figure didn't create "hell", and I haven't created "hell", so I clearly don't choose to go to it [and no one has created it], and your god figure doesn't send anyone there and he doesn't torture anyone. So I will die and that will be the end of that. Just as I thought.
17 Jul '19 07:51@philokalia saidWhy would Jesus oversee the administring of torture for eternity if it had no moral purpose? Does Jesus have a moral purpose in overseeing it?
If God is aware of hell (which He most certainly is), what difference would it make whether or not he was observant of it happening?
17 Jul '19 07:51@fmf said
What description?
So, in torturing people who don't believe in Jesus in burning flames for eternity, your god figure has no moral purpose that you are aware of?
If I don't believe in eternal torture then obviously I cannot "choose" it. Does that mean it won't happen to me because there is no one to inflict it on me?
17 Jul '19 07:53@philokalia saidExplain. The supernatural burning and torturing process where humans are kept 'alive' to suffer is not created by your god figure? Who created it? What does it mean to claim it was "created by circumstance"?
What is meant about it that it is uncreated is that it is not created by God, but created by circumstance.
17 Jul '19 07:54@philokalia saidWhich bit of what I said are you unable to understand?So, in torturing people who don't believe in Jesus in burning flames for eternity, your god figure has no moral purpose that you are aware of?
If I don't believe in eternal torture then obviously I cannot "choose" it. Does that mean it won't happen to me because there is no one to inflict it on me?
17 Jul '19 07:55@philokalia saidI am not creating "Hell". I don't even believe such a place or state exists. So if I am not creating it, who is?
Hell is created by the choice that one makes -- not to "let's build hell," but it is a byproduct of the choice to reject communion with God and the repentance for sins.
17 Jul '19 07:56@philokalia saidI have never known God.
First of all, we know that those who never knew God will be appraised through a different means, and even among the Saints there are disagreements as to the means and how it will occur. This is an absolutely different topic with a lot of depth to it, but of course, it is relevant.
Back to Top