Originally posted by FischerMHNo. Why do you people think you can come in here, make sweeping statements then refuse to back them up? You are not looking for anything on this forum, other than to massage your own ego.
I have no obligation to present a proof on this or any other forum. Any good Catholic apologetics text will do it, or just read St. Thomas Summa Theologica.
Originally posted by FischerMHThe Catholic Church is the true church founded by God, and the fact can be proven and has been using human reason.
The truth is that there is no great ideas developed on any internet forum. I simply set forth the truth. If you are interested, then there are plenty of books that prove the faith through reason. Any Catholic Apologetics book written before 1940 or so.
No I will not retract the my assertion.
I refer you to the debate that my friend lucifershammer and I had re Papal infallibility:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=32117&page=1
LH and I got into it beginning on page 3, but there are worthy comments by others as well. I think that reading through all our arguments shows that no RCC apologetics has rendered the notion that “The Catholic Church is the true church founded by God” unequivocal based on scripture, tradition or reason. I am sure that LH disagrees with me on that (the debate ended at a kind of impasse), but we remain friends. We both put a lot of energy and work into that debate (wherein I put myself into the Eastern Orthodox Christian tradition for the sake of the debate).
To his credit, LH did not just say “Go read a pre-1940 work of Catholic apologetics,” but rendered me the compliment of engaging in wholehearted debate. For that, I am grateful—that is how I learn. (Yes, I also read books.) Although most of us on here have from time to time recommended reading from various resources—partly because we don’t want to keep spinning the same wheel over and over again—we welcome sincere argument. When I first came here, I got well-slammed for just making bald assertions and being unprepared to argue them. That was good for me. If you want to argue that “The Catholic church is the true church founded by God,” then be prepared to argue your position... You’ll get lots of opposition, from other Christians, from folks of other religions and from the non-religious. Welcome to the club.
BTW, I’m a Zennist heretic, so I would start from a different base than would, say, a sola scriptura Protestant or a Greek Orthodox Christian.
Originally posted by scottishinnzTo the contrary, I am quite proficient at the art of debate. On the other hand, proving the existence of God and proving that the Catholic Church is the true church would take hundreds of pages of writing.
You, obviously, have never learned how debates work.
Since the Church buildings were taken over by the modernists, most people have never heard that the Church maintains that it is the only path to salvation, and outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. Thus, I simply throw out the fact, and if someone reads it and is moved by Grace to investigate, great.
That being said, if I can find the time, I will start a proff of the existence of God. However, with 6 kids under 10, time is a valuable commodity.
Originally posted by FischerMHGood. Proficiency in debate. We'll expect you to back up your statements in the future.
To the contrary, I am quite proficient at the art of debate. On the other hand, proving the existence of God and proving that the Catholic Church is the true church would take hundreds of pages of writing.
Since the Church buildings were taken over by the modernists, most people have never heard that the Church maintains that it is the only path to s ...[text shortened]... t a proff of the existence of God. However, with 6 kids under 10, time is a valuable commodity.