1. Standard membermenace71
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    09 Aug '11 01:03
    Basically that because at the beginning of the big bang it was like a black hole where times stands still or does not exist and that before the big bang there was not time therefore not enough time for a creator to create the universe. However what he fails to see is that (for those who believe in a creator) the creator is said to be eternal and outside of time. The creator is not bound by time. Time is meaningless so to speak for the creator. Not that the creator does not recognize and see the passing of events.


    Manny
  2. Illinois
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    09 Aug '11 01:101 edit
    Originally posted by menace71
    Basically that because at the beginning of the big bang it was like a black hole where times stands still or does not exist and that before the big bang there was not time therefore not enough time for a creator to create the universe. However what he fails to see is that (for those who believe in a creator) the creator is said to be eternal and outside of ...[text shortened]... r the creator. Not that the creator does not recognize and see the passing of events.


    Manny
    The act of creation can be conceived as coincidental with the singularity.
  3. Standard memberAgerg
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    09 Aug '11 01:331 edit
    Originally posted by menace71
    Basically that because at the beginning of the big bang it was like a black hole where times stands still or does not exist and that before the big bang there was not time therefore not enough time for a creator to create the universe. However what he fails to see is that (for those who believe in a creator) the creator is said to be eternal and outside of ...[text shortened]... r the creator. Not that the creator does not recognize and see the passing of events.


    Manny
    Is it too much to ask for you to give us a description of what you mean by "timeless" or is it just a term you use because you feel you can?

    Is there no temporal separation between different events for your god? If so how do you reconcile the non-existence of a universe and the existence of a universe in the same instant??? 😕

    Do you refer to multidimensional time!? What the hell does outside time or timeless mean for your god, and for it to exist in this temporal state???
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Aug '11 01:39
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    The act of creation can be conceived as coincidental with the singularity.
    Singularity is defined as a point at which space and time are infinitely
    distorted by gravitational forces and which is held to be the final state
    of matter falling into a black hole. So I fail to see what this has to do
    with the creation of the universe by God. It seems to fit the destruction
    rather than the creation.
  5. Subscribersonhouse
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    09 Aug '11 01:52
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Singularity is defined as a point at which space and time are infinitely
    distorted by gravitational forces and which is held to be the final state
    of matter falling into a black hole. So I fail to see what this has to do
    with the creation of the universe by God. It seems to fit the destruction
    rather than the creation.
    What is meant by that is we live in a multidimensional universe where our universe is just one little bubble in the possibly infinite picture of bubbles within bubbles, where the BB is seen as being on the output side of a black hole, and we see millions of black holes in our universe, where what we see there is the input side of the black hole but at least some of them begets a whole other universe which is cut off from anything we can see, at least at this stage of our scientific development. Who knows, in a thousand years or a million years, we can pop ourselves inside a black hole, go through, visit a whole other universe in a grain of sand, and pop ourselves back out again to our own universe. And if we can do that, to pop through black holes in THAT universe to find yet other universes, maybe with its own set of physical laws, like light that travels at one mile per second or some such. So maybe by then we can back up into the original bb and pop out of our universe and into the universe that beget ours. That would be a trip to behold for sure!
  6. Illinois
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    09 Aug '11 02:143 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Singularity is defined as a point at which space and time are infinitely
    distorted by gravitational forces and which is held to be the final state
    of matter falling into a black hole. So I fail to see what this has to do
    with the creation of the universe by God. It seems to fit the destruction
    rather than the creation.
    The singularity also refers to the absolute beginning of time and space predicted by Einstein's general theory of relativity (according to the Penrose-Hawking singularity theorems). Hawking later amended his original assertion that a singularity existed at the beginning of the universe, though he bases this conclusion on the implementation of imaginary numbers and adherence to an anti-realist ontological pluralism (i.e., contending that reality is model-dependent).
  7. Illinois
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    09 Aug '11 03:071 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What is meant by that is we live in a multidimensional universe where our universe is just one little bubble in the possibly infinite picture of bubbles within bubbles, where the BB is seen as being on the output side of a black hole, and we see millions of black holes in our universe, where what we see there is the input side of the black hole but at least ...[text shortened]... of our universe and into the universe that beget ours. That would be a trip to behold for sure!
    Actually, Hawking admitted, back in 2004, that the notion of baby universes forming on the "other side" of a black hole is not possible, since quantum theory requires that information is preserved in black hole formation and evaporation.
  8. Standard membermenace71
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    09 Aug '11 03:13
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Is it too much to ask for you to give us a description of what you mean by "timeless" or is it just a term you use because you feel you can?

    Is there no temporal separation between different events for your god? If so how do you reconcile the non-existence of a universe and the existence of a universe in the same instant??? 😕

    Do you refer to multidimens ...[text shortened]... does outside time or timeless mean for your god, and for it to exist in this temporal state???
    Well literally time has no meaning in the sense that God exists outside of time is not bound by time. Lives forever past present and future. Not like us who are bound by time. Timeless literally 🙂 Sorry not trying to be a smart ass LOL A being who is said to be eternal Past present and future. Hard to define.




    Manny
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    09 Aug '11 03:43
    Originally posted by menace71
    Well literally time has no meaning in the sense that God exists outside of time is not bound by time. Lives forever past present and future. Not like us who are bound by time. Timeless literally 🙂 Sorry not trying to be a smart ass LOL A being who is said to be eternal Past present and future. Hard to define.




    Manny
    In other words, it is not in our universe.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Aug '11 04:50
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    In other words, it is not in our universe.
    What do you mean by "it".
  11. Illinois
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    09 Aug '11 06:102 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    In other words, it is not in our universe.
    God is not outside of time, IMO. If the universe had a beginning in the finite past, then God existed when the universe did not. But this notion does not preclude God from being in time and space while the universe persists.
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    09 Aug '11 07:052 edits
    Originally posted by menace71
    Basically that because at the beginning of the big bang it was like a black hole where times stands still or does not exist and that before the big bang there was not time therefore not enough time for a creator to create the universe. However what he fails to see is that (for those who believe in a creator) the creator is said to be eternal and outside of ...[text shortened]... r the creator. Not that the creator does not recognize and see the passing of events.


    Manny
    Basically that because at the beginning of the big bang it was like a black hole where times stands still or does not exist and that before the big bang there was not time therefore not enough time for a creator to create the universe.

    So this is "what Stephen Hawkins [sic] said on that show". That has to be the worst synopsis ever. I still love you, though, Manny.

    By the way, if God is as you claim "outside of time", then how does He ever act or causally effect anything? The problem with respect to action is this: actions are events; but events occur in time. The problem with respect to causal efficacy is this: events are what cause other events; but events occur in time.

    I see that, although you claim God is outside of time, you also say "Not that the creator does not recognize and see the passing of events". But if God is involved in events, then in what sense is He outside of time? What does talk of time reduce to, in your opinion, if not to talk of events/changes (if you think it reduces at all)?
  13. Hy-Brasil
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    09 Aug '11 07:271 edit
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    God is not outside of time, IMO. If the universe had a beginning in the finite past, then God existed when the universe did not. But this notion does not preclude God from being in time and space while the universe persists.
    There is no time. Time is a man made concept. There is no tomorrow or yesterday. Everything is now.
    Think of a panarama.
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    09 Aug '11 08:17
    Originally posted by menace71
    Well literally time has no meaning in the sense that God exists outside of time is not bound by time. Lives forever past present and future. Not like us who are bound by time. Timeless literally 🙂 Sorry not trying to be a smart ass LOL A being who is said to be eternal Past present and future. Hard to define.




    Manny
    I'm more interested in how it performs actions. Does it do them all at once so that you have things existing and not existing simultaneously? or is there some sort of separation between these events? If the latter, by what system does one event progress to another?
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    09 Aug '11 09:31
    Originally posted by Agerg
    I'm more interested in how it performs actions. Does it do them all at once so that you have things existing and not existing simultaneously? or is there some sort of separation between these events? If the latter, by what system does one event progress to another?
    he could be outside "our" time. but still be bound to his time. think of you and a copy of fight club on dvd. the fight club universe has not started. it may never start. as such, it's time is set at 0. then comes the "big inserting the dvd in the dvd player and hitting play".

    the fight club universe has started.
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